Question for apostates!

by TheStumbler 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TheStumbler

  I have a question.

  The conventional wisdom seems to be that to 'convert' a Jehovah's witness (or get them to see TTATT) you have to ask questions that they cannot answer and engage with their true personality not their 'cult personality'.

  Intellectual arguments tend to fall flat because JWs (who do not already have personal doubts) believe they already know the absolute truth so anything contrary to that truth is nessecarily wrong. Any criticism of their beliefs will be seen as an attack or persecution and will be dismissed as flawed 'human thinking' or 'apostate lies'.

  To 'True Believers' any amount of contrary evidence and illogical inconsistencies in their beliefs can be dismissed or explained away. Their starting point is that they have special knowledge of absolute truth and all evidence and arguments are then weighed against this preconceived belief.

  Here is my question. Have any of you had any success getting a fully indoctrinated JW to see TTATT through intellectual debate and argument? Just straight up saying 'you are wrong and this is why and here is the evidence'.

  Does this approach only work on JWs who already have doubts or are at least open to the possibility that they are wrong?
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  TheStumbler

  Sorry, I posted this question in another thread but didn't put a title on it. Could a mod remove my other thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/268282/1/untitled-topic#.Uqajq9IW0WU

  Thanks
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  EndofMysteries

  A better question to ask is if anybody who was 100% in here had awaken due to that type of approach.

  It probably won't work unless they are already awakening on their own.
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  TheStumbler

  From reading peoples' experiences on here it seems a lot people either were raised in the religion but were never really 'true believers'. My sister would be an example of this. She went through the motions and she 'believed' it was the truth but her belief was not total.

  Others seem to start asking questions following some negative personal experience.

  Are some JWs unreachable with evidence and logic?
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  TheStumbler

  I was just wondering because I was thinking about that saying 'you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into'.

  I'd like to think that wasn't true. I know JWs who believe because they just 'know' they have the truth. Their belief is emotional but they still intellectualise and rationalize it. I'm wondering if anyone has experience reaching these people with intellectual arguments and criticisms. Or if you were presented with contrary evidence that made you start asking questions

  I'm not looking for advice, am I just very interested in hearing your stories
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  abiather

  I have had success in getting many JWs out by asking only one question:

  Why did the faithful and discreet slave class APPOINTED BY GOD to dispense food at the proper time abandon/change certain vital teachings? Who gave that teachings to them which were obviously lies? If there were proved lies LATER, God would not have given them? Appointment of God to give food at the proper time means ALWAYS SAYING THE TRUTH THAT IS ALWAYS CONSTANT.

  God's teaching will be more unumbiguous than trafic signals. RED Signal means STOP; Green means START! No interpretation is necessary!
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  integ

  I am not an "apostate". I hate that term.

  I am not against God in any way.

  Just against JW bullcrap and their lies.

  My answer would be that until they have doubts prior to facts they won;t be swayed that much.
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  TheStumbler

  I didnt intend it as a pejorative word but I can understand why you don't like the label.

  No offense intended
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  friendaroonie

  I believe that every jw hss some doubts that may be exploited or used as a point of leverage. They may not even be

  AWare that they have a doubt but if you dig around enough it'll be there. I have had some success getting into intellectual debate during some of my fake studiesI have set upi
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  TheStumbler

  I think critical thinking is a discipline and a skill that you develop and learn. Some people genuinely seem to have no problem resorting to

  intellectual dishonesty to maintain a belief (they are usually not aware of their self deception) But such people still consider themselves rational and I would like to think such people can be persuaded by appealing to their rational mind.

  I would like to think that even the most die hard JW could be presented with a magic combination of contrary information and appeals to their intellectual imtegrity that would cause them doubts.