Conversation-stopper STOPPERS needed!

by DS211 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • DS211
    DS211

    This is it. I have to get active. My wife told me we have hospitality this weekend and i know the JW slingshot mechanism will engage after attendance. So i have to get ready.

    my wife is still very much in. She likes dancing, drinking (but not binging of course), she doesnt enjoy gossip, and she hates seeing bad things happen to people. She cares so much about people and what they think, but still holds preconcieved WT ideals as she was a born in. We have already agreed that when our kids have friends in school not all of them would be JW. That the girls would experience sports and prom and dances.

    Her mother was strict, no prom, hand-me-downs, runt of the litter of 2 girls type deal.

    My wife and i also so watch movies with some magic in them and violence, rude humor, and she watches trashy reality shows like abbys dance and bad girls club lol. She likes the matrix, the village, equilibrium, lord of the rings, etc. We read books that are similar...little magic because shes on the fence about what shes allowed to like/not like.

    she thinks ray franz is an apostate, but if i pushed the matter she MIgHT read crisis.

    She hates when others gossip and speak ill of the elders, hates hypocrisy.

    One wonderfu. And sometimes frustrating quality that she has is she is blunt, to the point, and easily offended when challenged...sorry those are more than one quality. Shes damn good at arguments and remembers many detwils about everything.

    So naturally shes a gifted conversation stopper, hence why i did so poorly the first time i expressd doubts.

    so there you have it.

    Hassanians and 1984-ians, psychologists please help me work on stopping conversation stoppers with her. I need a place to start.

    DS

    ps i know ive started similar threads and i apologize if im being redundant but i think if you know more about her the. It may help me to get your take on what topic to start with. Im already taking hassans advice and playing on her real personality, not the cult one.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I don't know exactly which Convo-stoppers you are referring to, but the main two that come to my mind are "I will research that". and "Wait on Jehovah".

    The second one is easily disposed of with something like "Many JW's have lived and died in the last 100 years or so waiting for answers from Jehovah", perhaps that may be a bit blunt, and blunt people like your lady do not like it when you are blunt to them, so you may have to re-phrase that carefully, but you get the point.

    The first one is good, say "Yes please, when can I have an answer?" and stick with the question until you do.

    Do not allow a change of subject and your question to get lost, ask it, and it alone, and make the JW answer is the rule.

  • blondie
    blondie

    First, are you trying to share what you think and feel or trying to change what she thinks and feels. I work with a support group and we have learned to use the "I feel" or "I think" phrase before proceeding. We also realize that we are sharing not trying to change the other person to our view. When people continue when the other person has made it clear they don't agree, what are you trying to accomplish? It may be time to back off and wait for another time when they have time to absorb and think about what you said.

    Many jws are what I call "don't confuse me with the facts" people. In their private time they may see the point.

  • DS211
    DS211

    thanks phizzy! Good point!

    blondie--i like the "i feel" or "i think" approach...however that is easily contested by them because they just throw the proverbs scripture about not leanng on your iwn understanding at you and shut down.

    my intentions are both. I would love to use any of my doubts to help her think For herself. I know scripture battles may not work...but if i get the publications shell most likely try to shut me down with "where did you get this informatikn? Apostate sites?"

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi DS211, The easiest way to counter WTBTS taught platitudes is to ask short and simple questions like what Phizzy suggested that guide your wife to confront her cognitive dissonance in small steps. Too much cognitive dissonance at once could cause your wife's cult persona to terminate all conversations. Before you use zingers to stop your wife from using thought stopping platitudes, you also need to learn how to bring out your wife's authentic persona. Your wife's authentic persona is your greatist ally against your wife's cult persona.

    Whenever you ask your wife a question, don't say a word until she says something even if you have to wait for minutes. Remember every time you cause your wife to hesitate answering your questions. Those are the questions that cause your wife a lot of cognitive dissonance. My suggestions for the following platitudes would be:

    • "Wait on Jehovah" - How long have JWs been waiting? When did the WTBTS start predicting that Armageddon was going to happen soon? How long are you willing to wait for Armageddon to wait? Until you are 60? 70? 80? Can we start to plan for our retirement now?
    • "I will research that" - When will you start your research? What will you use to do your research? Will you be emulating the Bereans and independently researching what the WTBTS writes? If you do independent research, would the WTBTS/elders compliment you like the Bible does in Acts 17:11 when the Bereans read the Scriptures to verify what Paul said?
    • "I don't want to talk about it now!" - When will you want to talk about it? How would you feel if I told you that I don't want to talk about it, when you want to talk about something that is important to you? Would you like to watch the Matrix, Obilivion, or 1984 now?
    • "Where else would we go?" - How about follow the teachings of Jesus Christ like Simon Peter responded to Jesus Christ in John 6:60-70? Do you want to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ or follow the teachings of the WTBTS? Why didn't Jesus Christ order his twelve disciples to shun those disciples that left him in the desert in John 6:60-70? When (and why) did Jesus Christ order his disciples to shun or not to associate with other people?

    Best of wishes helping your wife to think for herself.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • bohm
    bohm

    Hi ds! Thanks for the update, two questions, how much do you think your wife knows about your feelings about the watchtower and secondly, do you feel she is more into it because she belive the bible is 100% true or because she believe what the gb sayes is 100% true? Im asking not because i want you to turn her into an atheist, but because it is my impression many jws are more open to thinking as themselves on the bible than when the gb gets critisized.

    a thing i might try was to get an idea about why she is smoking. The problem is she might take anything you say as an accusation, so i would wait till she was in a good mood (and smoking) and then try to make a joke about it, like ask her if she shouldnt try to hide it from you now you are taking such length to hide your filthy addiction to cigars or something lame like that. The point being if you can get her to laugh you can ask her why she smokes and see what happens, she might not like the gb is controlling her and that would be a good subject to talk about.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Another thing you might try (not very subtle) was to make a "please visit jwfacts.com" sticker, put it on an awake and when you come home from field service make an off-hand remark that you found it at a laundrymat like that. Just put the magasine somewhere with your other things like you do not care and go do something else. Dont mention the magazine or do anything else, the point being she will now know jwfacts.com in case she is curious.

  • DS211
    DS211

    great advice! I remember when i asked her questions about whether people would get married and have kids she we t right away and looked on Jw....then when she found no answer she was confused....the. Talked to an elder that we study with and he said we would see when the new scrolls are opened lol what a bunch of crap...she still is t convinced though. With that i could follow up with "why would the GB discourage us from having kids and getting married if there isnt marriage and kids in the new system?".

    or i could elaborate on what armageddon and post arma will be like...since she hates seeing people killed thatd pretty much get her thinking

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    Bring up a few of the scriptures that say any one who believes is gods son, Matt.12:50 1john 4:7-8.are just to . Then maybe bring up the scripture in Matt 18. I think where it says were there are 2 or more in my name there I will be also . These should help you start to destroy the idea that only jw's have gods blessing and the scriptures about god sons may help to dispell the 144k only gods sons idea. For me when I realized that I'm gods son it changed my whole consept and relationship. She sound like a person that if you try to show here ttatt or anti bible stuff it will not work so why not use the bible as your weapon to show her that jw teachings are wrong.

  • steve2
    steve2

    Your wife is one smart cookie who can spot her husband's wiley ways a mile off. Stop treating her like she doesn't know her own mind for starters.

    She sounds great and you two share a lot of pleasant and lovely experiences. Okay, she applies the pressure to you to become more active. What relationship doesn't have some degree of one or other spouses wanting more of something from the other? It requires goodwill, patience and respect. She does not sound disrespectful. She knows her own mind. You observe her flexibility with some issues. Go with the flow, man. Some JW spouses are insufferable. Your wife sounds like some of those movies you two naughty people watch together: Magic. Treasure her. I'd predict that in time your marriage will outlast her full on commitment to the organization.

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