by MissyM 36 Replies latest jw friends
if they change the subject, ask again. Be patient. Don't ask too many questions. if you raise flags, you lose their attention and possibly your only chance.
Yes, they like to jump onto something else as soon as they realize they have lost an argument or are out of their depth. You have to pin them down and keep them on topic.
Revelation 8:7 And the first one blew his trumpet.
Revelation 8:8 And the second angel blew his trumpet
Revelation 8:10 And the third angel blew his trumpet
Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel blew his trumpet
Revelation 8:13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven say with a loud voice: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!”
Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet.
Revelation 9:12 The one woe is past. Look! Two more woes are coming after these things.
Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel blew his trumpet.
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet.
In regards to Revelation 8:13, would it be correct to conclude that by that time frame, trumpets 1- 4 had already blown and that the 3 woes mentioned were in reference to the 3 remaining trumpets that were yet to blow, namely trumpets 5, 6, & 7???
In regards to Revelation 9:12, would it be correct to conclude that by that time frame, the 1 st woe that had past was in reference to the 5 th trumpet, and that the 2 woes that were still yet to come were in reference trumpets 6 &7???
In regards to Revelation 11:14, would it be correct to conclude that by that time frame, the 2 nd woe that had past was in reference to the 6 th trumpet and that the 3 rd woe that was still yet to come (“coming quickly”) was referring to trumpet 7???
Would it be correct to conclude that according to what is written in the bible, the 7 trumpets are blown in chronological order???
In regards to any trumpets that are believed to have already had blown (according to the WTS), can you tell me the year that corresponds to each said trumpet haven blown???
Jeremiah 25: 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’
12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,
What nations had to serve Babylon 70 years and how did the nations serve Babylon???
When did Jehovah say that he was going to call to account Babylon???
What year did Jehovah call to account Babylon???
In the context of the two verses above, when did the 70 years start and end???
In the context of the two verses above, what did the 70 years represent???
Isaiah goes on to prophesy: “It must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king.” (Isaiah 23:15a) Following the destruction of the mainland city by the Babylonians, the island-city of Tyre will “be forgotten.” True to the prophecy, for the duration of “one king”—the Babylonian Empire—the island-city of Tyre will not be an important financial power. Jehovah, through Jeremiah, includes Tyre among the nations that will be singled out to drink the wine of His rage. He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.
In the context of this WTS excerpt, what time frame are they referring to when saying; “Babylonia’s greatest domination”…to be more direct, what year did that time start and what year did it end???
Follow up to that question…what caused it to start when it did and what caused it to end when it did???
DP ch7 p.108 “The Great Timekeeper, Jehovah, had numbered the days of Babylon’s reign as a world power, and the end was closer than anyone at Belshazzar’s banquet thought. In fact, time had run out—not only for Belshazzar but also for his father, Nabonidus.”
9-15-98 WT “The Medes and the Persians easily took the city, and Belshazzar did not live through the night. With his death, and the apparent surrender of Nabonidus to Cyrus, the Neo-Babylonian Empire came to an end.”
Instight p.425 Particularly was this domination manifest during the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E. when Nabopolassar, a native of Chaldea, and his successors, Nebuchadnezzar II, Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk), Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, and Belshazzar, ruled the Third World Power, Babylon. That dynasty came to its end when “Belshazzar the Chaldean king was killed.
How many years did Babylon reign as the third world power…to be more direct, what year did they become the 3 rd world power and what year did that end for them???
The 7-15-13 WT (not shown here) states in the box on page 24 that there is no evil slave, that it is just a warning from Jesus to the faithful slave not to become so, basically going on to say that it is only a hypothetical. My question is…are the foolish virgins and the sluggish slave, who hid the Master’s talent also hypothetical??? i.e.….
[3-1-04 WT WHEN DOES JESUS COME?
It would not be reasonable to say, for example, that the rewarding of the faithful slave, the judgment of the foolish virgins, and the judgment of the sluggish slave, who hid the Master’s talent, will take place when Jesus “comes” at the great tribulation. That would imply that many of the anointed will be found unfaithful at that time and will thus have to be replaced.]
Also, the WTS when addressing the evil slave, calling it a hypothetical, is doing so from Matthew’s account, but my question is… in reading this same account from Luke, who is the slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line and who is the one that did not understand??? Or are they also hypothetical???
Luke 12: 41 Then Peter said: “Lord, are you saying this illustration to us or also to all?” 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 44 I tell YOU truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings. 45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and should start to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting [him] and in an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few.
Since I am not aware at this time rather you say if “the foolish virgins” are hypothetical or not, then I just have a few secondary questions regarding “the foolish virgins” if in fact they are not hypothetical.
According to paragraph 16 on page 7 in the July 15, 2013 WT (not shown here), the bridegroom (Jesus) in the parable found at Matthew 25:1-12, has not arrived yet and does not do so until his future arrival at Matt 24:30. That being said, it becomes obvious that the ready (discreet) virgins have not yet entered into the marriage feast yet and the door is therefore not shut. My question is, according to the parable, where are the foolish virgins in proximity to the discreet virgins prior to the bridegroom’s arrival??? Who make up the discreet virgins presently??? Who make up the foolish virgins presently???
Matthew 25:1 “Then the kingdom of the heavens will become like ten virgins that took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were discreet. 3 For the foolish took their lamps but took no oil with them, 4 whereas the discreet took oil in their receptacles with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom was delaying, they all nodded and went to sleep. 6 Right in the middle of the night there arose a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Be on YOUR way out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those virgins rose and put their lamps in order. 8 The foolish said to the discreet, ‘Give us some of YOUR oil, because our lamps are about to go out.’ 9 The discreet answered with the words, ‘Perhaps there may not be quite enough for us and YOU. Be on YOUR way, instead, to those who sell it and buy for yourselves.’ 10 While they were going off to buy, the bridegroom arrived, and the virgins that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut. 11 Afterwards the rest of the virgins also came, saying, ‘Sir, sir, open to us!’ 12 In answer he said, ‘I tell YOU the truth, I do not know YOU.’
Endnote in regards to the 3-1-04 WT excerpt.
That footnote is stating that Jesus’ arrival pertaining to the rewarding of the faithful slave, the judgment of the foolish virgins and the sluggish slave, who hid the Master’s talent, occurred back in 1918, but now in the 7-15-13 WT, the new adjusted understanding is that the rewarding of the faithful slave, the judgment of the foolish virgins and the sluggish slave, who hid the Master’s talent was not back in 1918 but occurs at Jesus’ future coming at Matthew 24:30. My question is…since they (WTS) stated the implications of what it would mean if those arrivals where at Jesus’ future arrival, but now state that those arrivals are indeed at Jesus' future arrival, then what does that mean for what they say that would imply…to be more direct, does the same still apply???
Thanks so much for all of these!!!
I think the problem I have is that I have no previous knowledge of the Bible, and the kids know this, so if I start quoting passages then they'll just think I've been Googling stuff. I'm wondering if I can ask her anything without exactly having to quote things from the Bible?
Ask "Why do JW's change their teachings?"
This will give you the "new light" answer.
Ask two questions:
1. Where did the 'old' light come from - Jehovah? - Why would He give us false teachings? Imperfect men? - Then why should we listen to them?
2. How do you know what you are teaching today is also not going to be 'old light' tomorrow?
If you get "even the apostles had false expectations" then use the "but they never wrote anything down in the Bible that was false, since that's not Jehovah's way".
It will be a cyclical argument but is good fun for a few minutes entertainment.
You could spice it up a bit by asking "Is there anything that the GB could say that you would question, or do you accept absolutely everything they say each time as being 'truth'?"
I was once discussing the new FDS teaching with someone who said "it makes sense to me".
I said that "Whatever the GB says would 'make sense' to you."
They took offence.
Splash
I like to ask JW's about obedience to Jesus Christ's commandments:
Luke 21:8
He said: "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.
Do not go after them!
Is that a recommendation or a commandment directly from the mouth of Jesus Christ?
abe
