Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    Here's another hole that I've spotted in the ransom teaching:

    Romans 5:15-17 says this:

    "But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many. 16 Also, it is not with the free gift as it was with the way things worked through the one [man] that sinned. For the judgment resulted from one trespass in condemnation, but the gift resulted from many trespasses in a declaration of righteousness. 17 For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ."

    The above passage makes it seem like Jesus act of justification is the exact opposite of Adam's sin in terms of it's efficasy. In fact it even implies that the benefit of the ransom is going to be applied more liberally to all, than was the condemnation from Adam's sin was passed on to all. However, that is clearly not the case. The penalty for Adam's sin was passed on to us all automatically with none of us having a say or choice in the matter. We don't have to exercise faith in Adam or his sin, to suffer the penalty of death. But to experience the gift of life from the ransom, we have to work hard at cultivating faith in Jesus and his sacrifice. More than that we also have to work hard against our sinful tendencies so as to not disqualify ourself from benefiting. Everyone dies because of Adam's sin whether they want to or not. By contrast, a large percentage of mankind will not benefit from the ransom.

    Shouldn't the ransom be applied automatically to all of Adam's offspring even as Adam's sin was applied automatically to all - especially since it isn't our fault that we were born imperfect and prone to sin?

  • prologos
    prologos

    Clearly you are not. but

    why did not the "INSPIRED" bible writers not think of this? and make accoomodating arguments, scripturally? and

    they were 1/3 closer to perfection!.

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    the whole sacrifice theology doesn't make much sense, but you got a good point there. it's even less than 3 days, supposedly jesus went to preach to the dead souls in the meantime (in non-jw christian theology of course).

  • prologos
    prologos

    and while he was temporarily dead, the tombs were alsready opened and the living corpdes went into jerusalem.Instant ransom benefits, before the price was even deposited in heaven 40or 50 earth days later.?

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Lets face it they had paranormal fiction writers in Moses day .

    smiddy

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Didn`t God say to Adam in the "day" you eat from it you will surely die ? and he lived for 930 years more.? Adam would only have had a concept of a 24 hour period for a day not some fanciful 1000 year period.

    And how come Adam was not raised up after 3 days as a spirit creature ,doesnt seem like balancing the scales to me .

    smiddy

  • Splash
    Splash

    Isn't the phrase used "he was dead for parts of three days"?

    Splash

  • Ultimate Axiom
    Ultimate Axiom

    I didn't think about this until the film Jesus Christ Superstar came out and it has Judas singing, "Who are you? What have you sacrificed?" Like you TATTElder, I started to think, this doesn’t make sense.

    And on the universal sovereignty issue mentioned by Comatose, none of that makes sense to me either. If we, as humans, acknowledge that God cannot make mistakes, cannot be wrong, then it doesn’t need to be proved (the ultimate axiom if you like). And if we know that, then all the angels must have known that as well. So why did Jehovah throw his whole creation into chaos and evil to prove something that doesn’t need proving? Not one of those angels would have thought, “hold on Jehovah, we think Satan’s got a point, we think you may be wrong here.” To which Jehovah replied, “oh dear, I’d better prove myself then hadn’t I”. And then 6000 years of evil follow. Where's the logic in that?

  • TTATTelder
    TTATTelder

    Yeah I have to say the universal sovereignty thing is big too. If Jehovah is boss, then why wouldn't he just take care of business. And then what's up with all the pent-up anger that he lets loose throughout the OT.

    I swear the more I think about all this the more holes I see.

    I guess that is why they inforce such a strict policy of zero tolerance when it comes to questioning anything. It's an enormous can of worms.

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    "I need to prove that my way is best! I will let man try to govern themselves."

    demons come to earth and mate with girls and god doesn't stop it, but he does kill untold millions in a flood afterward because of it

    "I will continue to prove that humans can't rule themselves."

    People start making a city and god mixes up all their languages and scatters them across the globe, thereby creating nations and cultural differences and racism and war

    "See after 6,000 years people can't rule themselves. Now, I will destroy billions and leave only those who want to love me."

    Billions of humans die but again Satan doesn't. He is abyssed and then let back out so more humans can die.

    Logical.

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