by Phizzy 28 Replies latest jw friends
Phizzy,
I think I understand where you are coming from. Maybe give reaching out to them one last shot. Meaning, make the "first effort" and see if they respond in kind. If they continue to treat you like a random aquaintance ratehr than a son, I say screw em. I have a small child and there isn't hell or earth that could stop me communicating and wanting him in my life.
Muddy Waters said-
I don't think you need to be an extremist or a person who "naturally pushes other people away" to become a JW.
No, and that's the point. Of course, I'm not saying EVERYBODY who is a JW is an extremist, just that there's likely an over-representation of those with bonding issues (AKA attachment disorders), compared to the general population.
(And by stretching my words, you're showing a tendency for jumping to extremes yourself: kinda ironic, no?).
The thing is, JWs DO read the message of Jesus' family values pretty accurately to what the Bible actually says, and they don't even try to bury it, or deny it: for them, the scriptures of Jesus saying he didn't come to bring families together but to tear them apart, etc, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, even a badge of honor so they can say, "Well, Jesus warned about this kind of thing and we're paying the price", so they can use it as an opportunity to display their infamous persecution complexes.
It's not all that hard to understand that EVERY GROUP has core beliefs and values; prospective members are going to be attracted to such groups that share their pre-existing principles: that's why ultra-conservative Tea Party types don't recruit for prospective members in big-city slums, why you don't see clear-cut loggers joining the Sierra Club, skin-heads don't join NAACP, etc.
Similarly, there's a profile and mind-set of a typical or average JW who's attracted to the message sold by the WTBTS, and the WTBTS fully-well knows the psychological profile of their target audience.
Flip-side is there's MANY MORE people who COMPLETELY don't fit their profile, and they wouldn't become a JW, even if you held a gun to their heads. It's a rather narrow set of beliefs, and hence why there's only 7 million members Worldwide (out of 7 BILLION).
And of course, there's many different reasons for shunning: sometimes out of self-preservation, other times on religious grounds. In a sense, they are doing it for BOTH reasons: they often truly believe that their surviving A depends on their willingness to shun, and I can't believe there's not some measure of self-awareness of the selfishness of their actions, causing some guilt (AKA 'survivor guilt', except anticipatory). Is it selfish? Sure.
But is it any more selfish than us shunning them, based on OUR own need for self-preservation and maintaining a sense of our emotional and mental well-being?
Adam
Phizzy~ also, things may ebb and flow with you and your family. Things... emotions, thoughts change.
Personally, it has been hot and cold between me and my family since I left five yrs ago. There have been heated discussions...other times I would hug them or say 'I love you' and got nothing....times when they wouldn't make it possible for me to see my little sister...
then there were times that they would say 'I love you', 'we think about you'...send letters...call to check in on us...sometimes we would even laugh about things
..there were times that I would not allow my family to have contact with my daughters...didn't tell them we moved out-of-state...didn't answer phone calls...
then there were times that I would just spontaneously call them and had a short but calm conversation that felt warm and simple (even if emotions run deep inside)
Guess what I'm saying is that there is no natural way to be when dealing with the unnatural forces of shunning. You may find yourself trying different ways of being, to cope with the frustration and pain. Who knows how you may feel six months from now? Maybe you'll be more indifferent. Maybe things will calm down and you'll find a way to have a little bit of peaceful contact, leaving the door open on your end. Maybe you'll say something direct and make them think.
I feel you on the twinge of guilt about 'shunning'them back. It doesn't feel right, but it also feels like sometimes it's the only way...at least for some time. Sometimes it's best to create some distance from where the insanity is coming from. Who wants to feel like they're constantly being rejected? Especially when it's so unfair. It can mess with the psyche. Maybe when you feel more grounded in your life away from the insanity, you'll feel fine letting them back in your life...on your terms.
I learned working in the Nuclear Plants priniciples that I apply to toxic family relationships: Time, Distance, and Shielding.
Oh, yes. We tried very hard to maintain ties with our JW family members. It was my gm, and aunt and uncle primarily. We faded it. I left with drama but the my mom and siblings faded. The local Witnesses were too lazy to bother us. One brother came to call. My father had just died. He confronted my mom about leaving the KH by standing on our front stoop and asking if she loved him with a booming voice. We pretended he was not outside. My gm was furious about what the neighbors must have thought about the Witnesses. They could only discuss Witness stuff. Altho I was a teenager and running out to Filmore East and peace demonstrations, I decided to give them no ammunition. I wanted to cry sometimes.
If you discussed the weather, there was a Witness angle there. Besides the overt Witness stuff, they suffered the consequences of viewing the world as evil. They were afraid of everyone. One prime example was that my uncle paid a lot upfront for dental bridge work. The local dentist, one of the worst in the area, dropped dead in the middle of the process. Altho I was in law school at a top school and had worked at law firms, he would not get in touch with the office to see what arrangements could be made. Other people would cry that I helped them, I was always suspect. The stupidest brother at KH knew more about law and business than I did. My aunt would sneak behind her husband's back and have my mom make simple business calls for her. She had never worked as a proper JW wife. My mom always worked. So many times I thought I would explode. Bad things will happen b/c this is a bad world. You don't assert your rights in such a bad world.
My family would have bad world bragging contests. Once my aunt tried to bridge the gap while I was still in school. While my uncle was busy elsewhere, she sneaked a question. I told her I needed to finish a term paper that was due. She asked how long it had to be. I told her the page number. A ten page paper meant nothing to her. She asked how long a Ministry School talk it would be. It was sweet. Of course, actual course content was off the table.
I relate to this topic so much. I never had any intention of shunning JW family members or JW friends. It's just that you can't spend any time with them without hearing about the cult. And I'm done hearing about it.
Is it deliberate shunning or simply a growing apart of people who no longer have much in common? I no longer call old jw friends simply because I no longer have anything in common with them. And their cult speak annoys me.
PHIZZY- Interesting points you make and an interesting thread topic. I find in these last 10 years being out of the JW's - I tend to " shun " or " not seek out " association with any of my JW family members who treat me inhumanely or treat me disrespectfully. I always will hold an olive branch out to my mind controlled adult JW daughters - however two of my JW older siblings who shun me or dissapprove of me- I don't bother talking to or calling as they don't call me either on the phone. I have one older JW sibling who DOES respect my inactive ex-JW status and I talk with her about once a month on the phone. I keep in close touch with my 3 ex-JW nieces and nephews, but not much contact with the JW ones still.
On the other side of the coin my older JW parents in their mid to late 80's have ALWAYS accepted or respected my fade into inactive oblivion as an ex-JW these last 10 years so I still have a decent relationship with my older JW parents. And of course my ex-JW son and I are tight, very close, thicker than thieves. So bottom line is this- if JW relatives respect my stand I'll respect their stand. If they do not respect my ex-JW stand- they'll get no respect from me. That's pretty much how I roll
I guess it is about mutual respect, or the lack of it, that pushes us to act as we do.
Also, as Julia says, the growing apart, and having nothing in common with them. The combination of cult-speak and talk of people I had little or no interest in when I was a JW means that any conversation is limited and stilted, especially as I have to make a supreme effort not to do my usual swearing whan I talk to them.
But to exclude tham as I have, as a deliberate act by me, is not something I find natural to me, but it does feel like justice, or Karma or something, they began the process.
