The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  tec

  I don't understand how that article rebuts anything, tec. It just seems that the argument is still "god is impotent", there there something he can't do, make a planet that doesn't kill the people he created. Saying things like "There's no design flaw" means God knew this type of stuff would kill millions of people.

  The planet could not have killed anyone before the fall. Because the PEOPLE were not subject to death. Only after the fall... after being cast out of Eden (the spiritual realm) in a different body that now had sin and death in it (the long garment of skin), was there any danger from the natural movements of the earth, that themselves allow for life to begin with.

  The being that you are considering to be impotent (according to arguments used) brought all life into existence. He also knows a bit more about how things work... in the physical realm as well as in the spiritual realm... than what you or I know. As can be seen in the article... earthquakes (hence the tension and build up between tectonic plates) are necesarry for life that we have.

  So saying that he could have or should have done something different... is speaking from ignorance. (not insulting ignorance... I know that some people are insulted by the word... but simply not knowing something)

  I don't know what you're talking about with spirit creatures and Adam and Eve.

  The Garden of Eden is in the spiritual realm. Adam and Eve possessed a body that could access the spiritual realm, as well as the physical one. Something we will be able to do after being given the white robe (spirit body) from Christ. After these two sinned, they were given a 'long garment of skin' (that tradition states is animal skin clothing, but is actually this body that we have now). This vessel, that will be changed in a twinkling when Christ returns to gather those who belong to Him. (see Paul1Corinth15:51-54/Rev 6:11)

  The long garment of skin given because of Adam is the 'opposite' to the white robe that is given to those in Christ, in the Kingdom.

  The first garment is this physical body. (the clay vessel that Paul spoke about us being trapped in, with sin and death in it)

  The second garment (white robe) is the spirit body. No sin or death in it.

  Regardless of whether you think the above is nonsense or not... the above moves the death from natural evil... to a result of the fall. Not that the earth necessarily changed. But man DID. NO natural movements of the earth would have harmed man otherwise.

  Peace to you,

  tammy
• 

  Simon

  Hummingbird: please try and comprehend that they are talking about another site. What is your point?

  However, if Outlaw was or wasnt a moderator here would be no secret but also no concern of yours. Like many other people, he often alerts us to issues we may have missed and we appreciate their help.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Outlaw,

  You have a huge task moderating these guys. I wish you well.....strypes

  So he IS a moderator, then.Hmmm.....Hummingbird001

  I am Not an "Official" JWN Moderator..

  I work with JWN Administration and Moderators..

  When there are Security Issues..Concerning JWN..

  ...................................................................................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  tootired2care

  TEC said: Hell, I was never a jw

  Yes, her personal lord and savior jebus neglected to tell millions of others, that the JW's are false, but saw fit to talk to TEC in her head, and give her a special warning to not be a JW. And now she is on a mission from god to teach us right. Isn't TEC such a wonderful gift and blessing to all of us inferior ex JW's here below?
• 

  tec

  Pretty sure that is off-topic too, tt2c, but if you want to know why I never got baptized... then you can read the response I just wrote on this thread, bottom of page 17:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/268107/17/Fallacies-about-Faith#.UtoiSBw76_U

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  tootired2care

  Well then, I guess that's like much of what you have already written on this thread. I have no interest in knowing anything more about a self absorbed, and intellectually dishonest charlatan such as yourself, and I'm pretty sure most others on here don't either.
• 

  tec

  How is that not a personal attack, rather than an attack on an argument?

  I have not insulted you. You don't agree with my faith. No problem. I never said you had to agree with my faith. I never even said you were going to hell if you don't, and I fight against those who do say things like that, because that is a lie. I am not pushing my faith on anyone. I am not pushing for it to become part of the government, or in the schools, etc. I would not want that to happen. It is the opposite of what my Lord TAUGHT, that I have emphasized many times on this thread. His Kingdom is not of this world. If it were, then his diciples would fight to establish.

  But it is not. If one is listening to Him, then one would KNOW this.

  I have never had a problem with you TT2C, and I bear you no ill will or insult in return.

  I do wish you peace,

  tammy
• 

  Viviane

  I'm not offended by your use of the word ignorance, it just means that now knowing something.

  Tec, I still have no idea what you are talking about, this thread is about the God of the Bible, what you are talking about is completely different. It doesn't move anything anywhere as the creatures you talk about being Adam and Eve aren't people, they are spirits that didn't live on Earth (I think?). I have to be honest, I am not interest in your personal religious because they aren't really talking about the topic.

  Plus, we know from archeology and other science that humans similar to us have existed for over almost 200 thousand years and there was no Adam and Eve, no original first pair that all the rest came from.

  I'm not tell you it's crazy or anything, it makes as much sense as the Bible, I guess, but it just doesn't seem like it's related to the question since it's changing the God the question is about. But, even if it was, it's a variation on blaming the victim.
• 

  tec

  I'm not offended by your use of the word ignorance, it just means that now knowing something.

  Good, thank you. Just making sure.

  Tec, I still have no idea what you are talking about, this thread is about the God of the Bible, what you are talking about is completely different. It doesn't move anything anywhere as the creatures you talk about being Adam and Eve aren't people, they are spirits that didn't live on Earth (I think?). I have to be honest, I am not interest in your personal religious because they aren't really talking about the topic.

  I think this thread is about the God "of theism". Regardless, I am still speaking about the God who is written about in the bible, shown truthfully (accurately) by Christ. Adam and Eve are in the bible. The intreptations about that story and what it means are many. The understanding I have been given of them is from the Spirit, yes. But regardless of whether you accept that, or how you look at the Adam/Eve creation story... there was no death until after the fall. They were not subjec to death until after the fall. Nor would their offspring have been subject to death.

  In any case, we don't have to continue this discussion if you would prefer not to, for whatever reason. I am going to be off to bed here soon anyway!

  Plus, we know from archeology and other science that humans similar to us have existed for over almost 200 thousand years and there was no Adam and Eve, no original first pair that all the rest came from.

  Archeology and other sciences can only deal with the evidence at hand... if something is of a spiritual nature, then these sciences are silent on the matter. At least for now.

  I'm not tell you it's crazy or anything, it makes as much sense as the Bible, I guess, but it just doesn't seem like it's related to the question since it's changing the God the question is about. But, even if it was, it's a variation on blaming the victim.

  No worries.

  I don't think it changes the question, and I do think it is related, as it rebuts two points:

  One, that God knowingly drowned those people by not designing things better. Man today is not as God designed him.

  Two, that this and really any death is a result of purely natural causes. Death was not in the world until Adam let death into the world. Regardless of how you interpret or understand that verse... it IS biblical.

  I am not sure which victim you are speaking of?

  Peace to you,

  tammy
• 

  EndofMysteries

  Woah, is 65 pages a record for a thread on this website? Anyway can somebody fill me in without me trying to read through 65 pages a brief summary of what is discussed to have made this 65 pages long?