Yes, but you have to provide it and award it too :)
Hey, I just won the promise of eternal life in paradise!
You can't ever prove that I won't get it so that means it's proof that I will.
This "belief" stuff is really easy !!
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences
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Simon
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Simon
Explain how drowning a quarter of a million innocent people can ever be a perfect act of love?
Everything you have said is bullshit until you give a direct answer that diesn' amount to "its a mystery"..
The only real answer is "I can't".
That's why he repeats "it's a mystery" in 195 different ways.
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Simon
Elvis lives in me. You can't prove he doesn't. It's a mystery. I insist you accept it unless you can prove it's false.
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OUTLAW
I got to page 100 first - do I win a prize?.....Simon
......Tell Him What he`s Won Johnny!..............."One of Canada`s Prized Fish!..A Salmon For Simon!!"
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...OUTLAW -
snare&racket
The argument 'we don't know what is going on with our god' doesnt work, because we cant be judged and thrown into a lake of fire forever, for making desicions based on not knowing what the hell is going on. I could simply say 'it appeared you were negligent, because you did not explain yourself.'
For me personally, the christian religion as founded in the bible, is clear, god IS SUPPOSED to answer your prayers, is supposed to help you. It is not for reasons of scripture that people claim god no longer intervenes or peforms mirscles, it is an argument born in realisation that we dont see these things happen....
The claims of miracles and interventions are written on scrolls 3000 years old, which were based on stories passed by word of mouth.
When I was a JW kid and I woke up on december 25th and Santa had not come, I did not conclude that Santa's ways were higher than mine and I was not to understand them, I grew up and realised he didn't exist. It hurt, but it was real.
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OnTheWayOut
I got to page 100 first - do I win a prize?
Yes. That person wins ownership of JWN. Good thing it was you, eh?
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flamegrilled
Hey, I just won the promise of eternal life in paradise!
You can't ever prove that I won't get it so that means it's proof that I will.
This "belief" stuff is really easy !!
Awesome. Congrats.
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Viviane
That's a fair point, but if you did have a choice between not existing, or playing your part in this universe, what would you choose?
That question doesn't make sense. You can't make that choice until AFTER you exist....
Anyone who questions things and deals realistically with uncertainty and probability I can listen to. Hence why I jumped into this conversation to challenge Cofty's certainty. It's not that I begrudge anyone their personal certainty based upon the balance of probability, but just don't try to tell me it's a logical certainty if it isn't.
Escept you only get halfway there and then reverse yourself. Of course no one knows everything. No one has claimed to know everything, but you are suggesting that we should not make decisions until we know if there is an unknown ugraspable unknow that, even if we knew it existed, couldn't help us decide because by your definition, it's ungraspable.
You get the first part of the logic right, then fall down on the second half. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to make a decision when we reach what is, as far as it is in our power to figure out, when we have reached the highest known state of quality of information that we think we can know?
Idon'tknowbecauseIdon'thavehisknowledge
That's not a logical certainty, just a posibility.
"logically if I had access to the same information as the all loving omniscient God and if I was going to act in the long-term interests of all humanity then I would act the same way as he did".
Why would you act the same way? Would you not have free will? And isn't that statement going directly against what you said earlier? You seem to be saying for a certainty that God has more information, as you said, we can't know that for sure.
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flamegrilled
Elvis lives in me. You can't prove he doesn't. It's a mystery. I insist you accept it unless you can prove it's false. Simon
You are right that I can't prove it. Therefore I will not claim that there is a logical proof that it is impossible. I will simply treat the information in accord with my value system of whether it is likely/important or not. In this case I would simply ignore it.
I haven't asked anyone to accept a belief in God at any time in this conversation, let alone insisted on such acceptance.
The one insisting we accept something is Cofty, in case you haven't noticed after all this time.
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THE GLADIATOR
Simon gets a prize, cos on this site he is god. He has power over our continued forum existence and does take action when required. And that’s as close to heaven as we’ll ever be.
Unfortunately this debate has been derailed by Flamegrilled’s philosophical approach to the subject. We were discussing reality verses myth and fabrication. The reality is that the conceptual god did not act to save 250,000 live in the tsunami. This is easily explained; such a god does not exist.
The theory, that if such a god does exist, he may have knowledge that we don't, so therefore we are impotent and unable to arrive at a moral conclusion, is all supposition. First we need to establish that such a being exists. Having done that, we can analyze why he does nothing.
Until I have proof to the contrary I am bound to reality. God is a trick of the mind. So, the concept of an all knowing god can only be sustained by further tricks of the mind. I’ve done a few mental summersaults in my time, but have moved on. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
...OUTLAW