The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

  • humbled
    humbled

    "The only solution is to improve the quality of life for everyone" is what we ought to do but the unfortunate side-effect of christian theism is to provide that benefit only to those who deserve it: those of our own faith.

    Ironically, material benefit is for only those who have a hope beyond this life. and the only thing a JW offers an un-believer is --a free home bible study!

    I am aware that other denominations do charitable work--but this often is what aims to produce "rice" Christians with varying degrees of genuine faith.

    So what's to be done?

    I agree that whatever comfort people can derive from the anguish of life is to be left to them.

    "A smoking wick he will not extinguish" is a sweet scripture for that reason. A hope beyond the decimation of your home and family? Take what you can find, of course!

    But there is this: that scripture alludes to faith in God. and what threatens that flame if not the loss of hope and purpose? (It is for want of hope and purpose that some seek religion to begin with) So faith finds itself necessarily attached to hope and love as well--look at 1 Cor. 13. That is why faith dies so often when stripped of hope and love. (That three cord strand...)

    But when there be others nearby working, who for love of others, who know we are all brothers and sisters and mothers here on the earth---OF WHAT EVER FAITH OR OF NO FAITH--helping and healing those who need it--all without a promise of recompense in the afterlife--then there a flame that burns in every moment.

    That thought kinda lights my fire.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    It's silly to say that any interpretation is equally likely, including satire. Obviously some meanings must be more likely.

    How do you arrive at that conclusion?

    Do YOU honestly think that the writer of 1 John intended to make a statement that superseded all previous statements about God's nature and to declare all God's actions to be loving?

    Why not? A lot of the Gospel is attempting to supersede prior writings. It happens all the time. So does satire. How many people think that Machiavelli was was serious when he wrote "The Prince" but it too was satire.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince#Interpretation_of_The_Prince_as_political_satire_or_as_deceit

    Because I just don't see how that could have been intended.

    See above...

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Religion is not a disease. Everyone fiercly defends their beliefs when they believe they are under attack. It's part of the human condition.

  • cofty
    cofty

    To be fair jgnat it was faith that I called a disease. I am defining faith as making a virtue out of believing things regardless of the evidence.

    It was in the context of the way faith in an afterlife is used to justify diminishing the value of human life.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Is it totalitarian/imperialistic for a group of people, as a collective, choose to subscribe to articles of belief?

  • caliber
    caliber

    To be fair jgnat it was faith that I called a disease. I am defining faith as making a virtue out of believing things regardless of the evidence.

    It was in the context of the way faith in an afterlife is used to justify diminishing the value of human life. ~~ cofty

    You see that faith can have different aspects or contexts for understanding yet will not grant the same for the spiritual quality of love.

    (Idealistic love, practical love, absolute love, ultimate love )

    Both marriage & religion is about accepting articles of belief & common goals .....being in relationship & trusting ... having faith

    You could try to separate love and marriage as unrelated also... but what a hollow & unfulfilling existence that usually turns out to be !

    Most every common action ever taken by man requires some measure of faith or trust. Faith is not a disease it is a bond that unites.

    Faith, trust, patience, love, ..... all these things make for lasting bonds

  • cofty
    cofty

    Theists don't get to hijack words like love and trust. Love makes life worth living.

    You are welcome to the word and concept of faith though. Faith is not a virtue.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Very interesting thread at 106 pages and 45,726 45,757views. Thank you for starting this Cofty. I, too, am in awe of the time and energy you have to spend doing this (as well as the other posters who have contributed). Also in awe of your ability to rationally discuss this with your former pastor.

    I am up to about page 45 so far. I'd like to get through all of the pages but will see if I have time.

    When I was between the ages of 10 and 12 years old I asked my Mom why Jehovah/God doesn't do something about suffering; why doesn't he help people in need. I believe my question was prompted by the Ethiopian drought and famine occurring for years and how these people were dying by the 100's of thousands. Her answer was:

    "He has turned his back on all mankind because they could not stop sinning." Not sure if you want to add this. It seems to fit with a 'shifting the blame' answer.

    This answer did not endear God to me. In fact, it had the opposite affect and was the beginning of the end of God for me.

    I think the latest summary is on page 74 (pls correct me if I am wrong): Summary so far

    Holmes and Snare beat me to the Epicurus quote.

  • Miss.Fit
    Miss.Fit

    Hi Heaven,

    Cofty is supposed to update the summaries. Im hoping maybe he starts a new thread and lists the summaries there.

    I enjoyed your post.

    This thread made me rethink alot of things.

    Thanks cofty.

    Miss.Fit

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Hi Miss.Fit, glad you enjoyed my post and that this thread is helping you to rethink a lot of things.

    Over the years, my experience discussing topics such as this with Christians has made me conclude that God is just a figment of the human imagination. Each Christian seems to use the Bible and then make up their own stuff to try to resolve the conflict of the situation like the one Cofty discussed with his former pastor. And time and time again they fall back on the same items listed in the summary.

    In reading through this thread, I think Cofty should be heralded as the Chief Cat Herder here. "Herding cats - don't let anyone tell you it's easy.":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWymXNPaU7g

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