by stormrider 20 Replies latest social relationships
I appreciate all of your replies to my post. I tried to e-mail a couple of you. Feel free to write me.
To respond to a few things some of you said...
I know it's the ACT not the feeling that is wrong in God's eyes, but I'm not willing to be single and pretend I'm something I'm not until the new system comes around to work it's magic.
Thanks again and I'd still like to hear from people in a similar situation. Till next time... =)
Your comment that " I know it's the ACT not the feeling that is wrong in God's eyes, ..." indicates you're still thinking about this like a JW. You've got some real territory to cover, and I hope you follow through and contact other former Witnesses dealing with this issue.
My view toward homosexuality changed dramatically in my last years as a Witness. As I made more friends who were gay, and discussed things with them, I realized that what I'd been told about this as a Witness was just way off base.
If you want to continue to accept the thousands of years old morality and worldview of the Bible, then homosexuality will continue to be a serious sin for you - though slavery or selling your daughter or chopping off a woman's hand if she grabs a man by the balls in a fight are just fine. I would suggest it's time to expand beyond that ancient world. I wish you the very best in your journey! You've made a good start by coming here.
S4
Ethan,
I'm an old lady, motherly type, heterosexual ex-JW, but I DO live in Michigan!
Feel free to e-mail me if you just want to meet somewhere to talk. At least I can understand your JW past...
MikeMusto,
Are you in Michigan, too?!
outnfree
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts -- John Wooden
The reason I still think like a Witness is because I believe what I was taught. Those old world values and belief in those ancient teachings still mean a lot to me.
Although I am no longer active in the truth I still have all the same beliefs and morals as I did.
I no longer have the guilt I formerly had about being gay, I accept it, it's who I am. I don't regret being who I am, I just regret that who I am is unacceptable to the congregation and God. I miss the meetings, I miss all my friends. I enjoyed all that went with being a Witness, except hiding and surpressing the real me.
I'm really just curious how other gay JW's deal or dealt with being gay in our organization.
Hi Stormrider,
When I first started thinking about disassociating in late 1993, I felt that the Organization was correct about everything except they just didn't really understand homosexuality. I also believed [after much inner-searching and prayer] that I was OK for being gay. It's just that somehow the scriptural interpretations got mixed up over the years.
However, around January 1994 I came in contact with Raymond Franz's books Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. Having once been an elder, I started to read quite skeptically and critically, KNOWING that I could find fault with his writings. On the contrary, everything that he wrote was fully backed up. It dispelled from my mind the incorrect view that "The Truth" is the truth. It is merely another man-made religion with both good points and bad points. It cannot lay claim to being "Jehovah's Organization on Earth". I strongly recommend that you read them.
When I sent in my letter of disassociation in March 1994 I simultaneously sent in an ad to start the formation of a support group in San Francisco for former JW gays. Long story short, between my starting the group, Kent Steinhaug's support for us on his web site, and Jim Moon's [the first one to answer my ad] tireless efforts at putting together a first-rate web site [www.gayxjw.org], we're now International!
Feel free to contact any of us [links to our emails are on our pictures]. BTW, I'm also from Michigan. I left the Dearborn Congregation for California [still a very active JW at the time] in the fall of 1980. I've never regretted my move. Also, I've never regretted disassociating in 1994.
*****
This is a LONG comment on what John W Wirtanen and some others have posted in reply to my topic. I am not saying what follows as a personal affront to him or anyone else. It is simply my deeply held convictions and beliefs in the Bible, not the organization.
*****
First off, it is obvious that there are numerous people here who no longer have any true love or faith in the "religion" called Jehovah's Witnesses, nor the truth that they were once taught from the Bible. I am not one of those people.
Although I am openly gay, I do have a boyfriend, and I am knowingly going against what I believe to be right and what I know to be the truth... I have not, do not, and will not allow myself to confuse what I WANT TO BE THE TRUTH from the Bible, with what actually IS THE TRUTH from the Bible.
I would love nothing more that for Jehovah himself to speak from the heavens and tell us all that it's ok to be a homo, that he understand how hard it is for us little people down here, and if it makes us happy, go ahead and do it, he'll forgive us. But he hasn't and he won't because that isn't the case and that's not the truth.
This is my response to those comments previously posted that God understands that we're gay, that he'll know it's really "not our fault," and that he'll throw everything out the window and forgive us...
I have read 90% of the literature published by the Society during my time in the organization as an active publisher (1985-1999). I have also read nearly every article and scap of information published by the society that is currently considered up to date and correct as the Body understands it... as well as numerous other sources on God/religion and homosexuality.
In that reading if you have any objectivity at all and really want to know the TRUTH from what you read in the bible and not just what YOU YOURSELF WANT to see in the pages, if you are truly honest and don't throw in any of this "oh god loves everyone and he is caring and forgiving..." etc, etc... if you honestly, openly, and truthfully read, meditate upon, and attempt to draw an honest and true conclusion as to what the bible says regarding homosexuality and God's view upon it you will deduce the following...
1. Homosexuality is among the most detastable sins mentioned in the Bible.
I say that because not only does the Bible specifically say that "man must not lay with man..." "nor men kept for unnatural purposes...shall inherit God's kingdom" "do not leave the natural use of the male... do not leave the natural use of the female..."
Specifically saying "DO NOT DO THIS..." it also gives an overwhelmingly clear example with Sodom and Gamorah. These cities were filled with evil and wickedness and THE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE OF THIS GIVEN WERE MEN TRYING TO TAKE MALE ANGELS AND HAVE SEX WITH THEM. Jehovah desimated that city with fire.
2. Not only should you deduce #1, if you are wanting to know the truth from the Bible and not your own truth, but you will also deduce that this is not something that Jehovah has, does, or will approve of. Nor should you deduce from ANY example in the Bible that he will forgive/spare any who ACT on those homosexual feelings.
Why do I say that? Give me one example...just one... in the Bible where after Jehovah repeatedly gave commands to his people NOT TO DO...whatever... and they decided that they were going to do whatever they wanted... show me one example where Jehovah said "Ok, I understand that you felt that you couldn't resist doing this thing and that you knew I would understand, so even though I told you that it was wrong, told you not to do it, and told you that you would be punished for doing it... I'll just forget all about that, don't worry about it."
Show me ONE example from the Bible where he did that.
Homosexuality is something He despises, does not aprove of, and if you are truly honest with yourself and you do believe in the Bible... NOT in the organization, but in the BIBLE... you would realise that what you posted was absolutely rediculous.
It's not ok to act on homosexual feelings, it's ok to have them but not to act on them. I have done that, so I'm not being hypocritical here, I am gay, I do have a boyfriend, so this is something that I am saying from my heart not something I'm just spouting off about and expecting everyone but me to follow.
God WILL NOT, in my opinion from my learning and reading from the Bible, forgive anyone for doing something over, and over, and over again without even attempting to change when he said that what they did is wrong. Why would he give commands and laws to live by if they were ok to be broken and there were no consequences if you did break them??
Congratulations John on beginning your own JW bashing site, because that's all I see it as. I'm not looking for any group or person to help subvert JW's nor am I looking for any group/person to tell me that everything I was taught, believe in, and struggled to hold on to for so long is bullshit and was a waste of my time.
All I was looking for is people to talk to who are gay and were or are JW's. I wanted to discuss with them their experience with dealing with their situation. How they felt, what they did do get through it or what they are doing to get through it.
I didn't want to be told it was alright and all that stuff I learned is wrong.
Anyway, this went on a LOT longer than I anticipated and isn't nearly as coherent as I would have prefered, but alas I must drop it.
Feel free to contact any of us [links to our emails are on our pictures]. BTW, I'm also from Michigan. I left the Dearborn Congregation for California [still a very active JW at the time] in the fall of 1980. I've never regretted my move. Also, I've never regretted disassociating in 1994.
John W Wirtanen
Stormrider:
Do yourself a favour and visit this website: http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html
Hi Ethan,
I'm not gay but all I can say is: it's good that you figured it out and are not hiding anymore. You didn't do like my 'dad'. He adopted me (married my mom) when I was 3. He had 2 girls One is now 18 the other 16. 5 years ago he decided to 'come out of the closet', left my mom and told her that he married her to hide the fact that he was gay and was picturing guys while having sex with her. Talk about a f'ed up family.
I'm just glad that you won't go destroying someone else's life and that you're making yourself happy!
Props to you!
Look Stormrider give yourself about another 3 or 4 years for the residual brainwashing effects of Dubdom to wear off and believe me you'll have a whole new perspective on this. You won't give a rat's ass what the bible thinks and be living Gay and fabulous. It took almost 6 to 7 years for me to finally feel that every human being i was coming in contact with wasn't under the influence of Satan. That can really put a damper on your social life, you know?
Listen I'm not gay but I live in Seattle and know a lot of gay people. It's senseless for you not to embrace yourself for who you are and enjoy it. Personally i feel being gay is both a genetic ( i know some gay twins) and environmental thing. If you believe it is even remotely genetic then GOD at some point had to have either created it or factored homosexuality in at some point. Hell, monkeys and most other animal species do it, are they all going to die at Armageddon too? I think its a natural part of creation
My point is stop worrying what the bible says about it. Don't hold yourself to those values. If it's who you are than there is nothing you can do about it. Read that webpage above about the alternative bible views on homosexuality. If that doesn't work, wait another few years and you'll feel a lot better.
So what the bible says don't be a homosexual. The bible was written way before the gay rights movement, remember?
Besides, life is too short not to be yourself. Believe me, the JWs robbed me of this for years. THAT is the biggest sin NOT mentioned in the bible. Robbing people of their own selves. Long before the 4 horsemen of the apocolypse get to killing gays they'll be hard at work on the JWs trust me....(if you still believe that nonesense)
Hi Storm,
Not sure if you are still around. I am gay and was a JW until I was 30, then I left to live my life as a gay man.
If you believe the Bible and believe that you are detestable to Jehovah for living as a gay man, then you should go back, live a celibate life and serve God as you believe.
Its foolish of you to have a boyfriend if you believe god hates that.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. You have to decide for yourself what you believe.
I have decided to live my life as a gay man. I believe love is the law of God and I attempt to practice love in all that I do. You cannot rationalize away the bible scriptures that condemn homosexuality. They are there.
Good luck to you. You will find that there are as many opinions on this as there are gay JW's and exJWs.
I have been in a relationship for 14 years with a wonderful man. I hope you find one or either find a way to be a happy celibate JW.
Joel
