Jehovah's day will come as a thief in the night

by spectromize 70 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Jr

  Spec, you said:
  

  You have to realize that if you’re not ready for truth at a particular time it could destroy you mentally and physically.

  What guided me to this forum is my search for more truth. I like this forum because people are a little bit more civil. Also there are some here who still have an interest in what the scriptures have to say.

  I gather that you consider yourself a lover of truth. So am I. And it is good to see someone that still has faith. Saying that, I would like you to consider something. From my study of the scriptures, I see JWs to be God’s chosen people (the same people that will become as numerous as the grains of sand). Even though many on this board would disagree, I have support to show that only JWs could be this nation.
  In order to qualify as “ Spiritual Israel” there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths. These basic truths are revealed in the “Law covenant” given by Moses. And can be traced down from the nation of Israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time. These basic truths have survived for centuries.
  Upon examination of the historical facts, that these fundamental truths have been maintained by small Christian groups down through the years, since the 1st century. The “Spiritual Israel” that the bible speaks of in the last days, according to prophecy, has to meet certain criteria. Here are three that must be met by “Modern day Israel”:
  1) Called by God’s Personal Name
  2) Monotheistic (one God concept)
  3) Iconoclastic (no images in worship)
  These must be reflected in any group that might qualify as “Modern day Israel”. As you can see, there are not that many choices. Yes, I see scriptural support to show JWs as the nation of “Israel”, “Modern day Israel”. That is a serious statement considering what responsibility goes with carrying that name. But, I would like to stretch your thirst for truth a bit if I may.

  JR
• 

  spectromize

  Dear Jr,

  Thank you for your input, I'm listening.
• 

  spectromize

  Dear thinker,

  Nobody knows the day or the hour. It would be wrong to speculate but keep closely in mind the composite sign that Jesus gave concerning the nearness of the end.

  I would like to point to you the book of Daniel as reference to some of your questions, read it carefully.
• 

  trevor

  JT

  An excellent post. I remember it well I was a pioneer at the time. The urgency theme was powerful stuff - sold my car in 1974 during the British petrol crisis and took up cycling - pedaling the word. Thought the end was nigh. Fell out of bed and woke up!

  Trevor
• 

  Jr

  Since JWs are God’s chosen people, the scriptures have much to say about Israel in the last days.
  Let’s consider what is said about the “house of God.” 1 Peter 4:17 say, “Judgments starts with the house of God.” According to the WT though there seems to be an attempt to try to shift the responsibility away from them and place it elsewhere. The book of Revelation it’s Grand Climax at Hand, pg 260 says,
  “From 1914 to 1918, these [International Bible Students] suffered greatly at the hands of Babylon the Great, but in 1918 the Lord Jehovah and his ‘messenger of the [Abrahamic] covenant, ‘Jesus Christ, began judgment with ‘the house of God’, those professing to be Christians. Thus “apostate Christendom was brought to trial” (Malachi 3:1; 1Peter 4:17)”

  Did you get it? Yes, “apostate Christendom was brought to trial!” Christendom, and not God’s Name people, the JWs, here represents the “house of God” under judgment”. The “Society” clearly identifies Christendom as the “house of God”. They continue,
  “Her [Christendom] tremendous bloodguilt incurred during the first world war, her complicity in persecuting Jehovah’s faithful witnesses, and her Babylonish creeds did not help her in the time of judgment; nor did any other part of Babylon the Great merit God’s approval. Isa 13: 1-9”

  Now on other occasions, the WT applies the same expression of “God’s Household” mentioned at 1 Peter 4:17 to JWs. In the publication “Choosing the Best Way of Life, pg 133 par 48,49 & pg 135 par 52 they apply it to the Christian congregation. I quote,
  “As a “house of God,” the Christian congregation had its beginning in 33 CE. From that time onward its members have been under divine judgment. Their response to his will, and their attitude, words and actions toward the things that Jehovah allows to befall them have much to do with what his final verdict will be…Since Jehovah God allows his ‘loyal’ servants to undergo severe treatment to refine them and for them to demonstrate their devotion, how could we imagine that the “ungodly man and the sinner” inside the Christian congregation or “house of God” could even “make a showing “ before Him along with “the righteous man” inside the same congregation? “

  It is his name that matters to him in all generations. That is why he said of the Jews, “For, look! It is upon the city upon which my name is called that I am starting off in bringing calamity.” Jeremiah 25:29

  The “house of God “ could not ever have been Christendom because they never qualified to begin with. They never acknowledged Jehovah God’s as the one and only true God. Nor have they carried that name. Yes the “House of God” could only be the true Christian congregation. Would you not agree? That is why the scriptures say,
  “Now if it [judgment] starts with US, what will the end be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?” 1 Peter 4:17
  The high qualification of being considered the “house of God” can only apply to the “true” Christian congregation. My point is this, if the “house of God” is JWs, there is much to answer for. For instance: Did you know that the “house of God” is destined to be severely disciplined by Jehovah in the last days?
  Isa. 30:26 says, “And the light of the full moon must become as the light of the glowing sun; and the very light of the glowing sun will become seven times as much, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals even the severe wound resulting from the stroke BY HIM.”(The stroke-wound and restoration has not occurred yet)
  Jeremiah 23:19,20 says, “Look! A windstorm of Jehovah, rage itself, has gone forth, an onward-sweeping tempest. Upon the head of the wicked ones it will whirl. The burning anger of Jehovah will not turn back until he will have carried out and until he will have made the ideas of his heart come true. In the final part of the days you people [Israel] will give your consideration to it with understanding. “ (This raging in the final part of the days and this coming to understanding has not occurred)
  Many might attempt to say that this applied to the natural Jews, but if you examine it, you will see that it did not. Much of the Prophets material had to do with the time of the end. Daniel also spoke of things that would happen to "Israel" in the last days, but was told to seal it up until the time of the end.This applies to ”Spiritual Israel” in the last days. Do you see this applying to “the house of God” today or do you see it as days gone by? If it applies to the future, whom do you believe it could apply to? If it applies to JWs, do you think there is reason for concern?

  JR
• 

  spectromize

  Jr,

  What kind of refining do you think will happen to the house of God during these last days?
• 

  trevor

  Why would the God of light come as a thief in the Night? Why would an Almighty God come like a thief who has no right to be there? Why would he come unexpectedly and secretly like a thief who nobody is expected to see? The aim of the thief in the night is to deceive, hardly God like. Would not God come in such a manner that every eye would see him?

  Come to think of it, I had heard that is how he is to make his appearance. Confusing thoughts of sneaky men perhaps. How far removed from the God of truth, honesty and awesome power that the universe shows him or her to be.

  Trevor
• 

  Englishman

  Jr,

  JW prophesy is always open-ended. We are being persecuted, prophesy has been fulfilled. We are being blessed, prophesy has been fulfilled.

  Now we have the latest mind numbing fulfillment: Our organisation is rotten to the core, prophesy has been fulfilled, we must be the right religion.

  Englishman.
• 

  JT

  Trevor says
  The urgency theme was powerful stuff - sold my car in 1974 during the British petrol crisis and took up cycling - pedaling the word.

  **********

  man --how i recall those days - i can see so clearly this pioneer sister in my hall who had one of those 3 wheel bikes to get around town on- she had a 2 or 3 year old who had a little seat rigged up in one of the baskets- gas was only sold on certain days of the week--

  we all knew the END WAS SO CLOSE let's see at 3 yrs old that makes that kid at least 29/30

  so she is now a Grand ma

  What a COLD TRICK TO PLAY WITH FOLKS LIVES the way WT has done with many of us

  JT
• 

  JT

  spectromize

  ******
  While i may not agree with you on some of your points . i do want to take this opportunity to say Thank YOU.

  since many of us here are either currently associated with the Org or not , we all share a general understanding of the org view on dialogging with those classified as "Apoststes" DFed and DA.

  due to this we often times see threads like this go into NAME CALLING AND OTHER foolish things.

  It is so refreshing to see that adults can discuss issues without having to get into the gutter

  many jw completely REFUSE to read, hear or examine anything that does not put the WT in a Favorable light and we all know that it is due to the instructions that all JW have been given when it comes to conversations such as this.

  it is good to see someone like you who has decided to weigh for yourself the value or lack there of of those who have chosen to leave the org.

  i have always believed that if we have the truth then there should be no need to fear or avoid open dialog

  there is not ONE JW who would accept a bible students view that

  "I don't need to read your magazines i alreay know what is in them"
  yet they have never opened a magazine up in thier life
  in fact we would challenge such a person as to whether they consider it open minded make a conclusion on a mattter and yet never examined it.

  as jw we were always encouraging folks to be willing to examine thier dogmas even if it proved to be Critical

  yet not one jw is allowed with out penlty of DF or at least being counseled by and elder for doing the same thing that we ask every householder to do

  if a jw like yourself is willing to examine many of the things you will be asked to examine and then still concludes that the Many claims of the WT are Scripturally based

  then at least one has to admit that you have made an informed decision whether we agree with it or not

  the problem is that many of us firmly believe that if as bible students we were allowed to examine and question many of the things that we have seen and read here on the net in the context of:
  
  "DOES THIS LOOK LIKE INFORMATION THAT CAN BE CALLED FOOD FROM GOD"

  or is it merely the "Opinion and in some cases the Guesses of a group of men who sit on the Writing Staff of the WT"

  as i tell my father inlaw- when a person is studying he praised and commended for asking lots and lots of questions

  the problem is ---It is not till after one baptized many times do you then know what questions to ask- BUT IT'S TOO LATE THEN

  BUT THANKS again for at least being willing to dialog with others who may not share your views- something i rarely see done by many jw

  and how sad

  just my 2

  JT