by Captain Blithering 29 Replies latest jw friends
What Black Sheep and ABibleStudent said.
Plus Rufus T. Firefly: "NEVER speak to two [or more] elders. I learned the hard way that they WILL lie and use one another as witnesses against you. I prefer requesting that the elder put anything he has to say to you in a letter. That scares them shitless, to put it mildly."
Record it?
GA
Dammit. there were paragraphs in there i promise!-CB
CB, it must be your browser, that is why the formatting hasn't worked. I say this as if I know what I am talking about but I have just seen other people say the same. It might be an Apple Mac problem too.
Anyway, back to the point of the elder chat. You seem quite determined not to give the game away just yet, but at the same time you hate the toxic environment of meetings and the hypocrisy.
You have two options
1. Keep your mouth shut and bottle it all up
2. Let it all out and say what you feel
Option 1. leaves you feeling tense and uptight, option 2. leaves you feeling relieved in the moment but with huge regrets. You need to start taking control of your exit now CB. Plan your next encounter with the elders and take control. Each time they instigate a meeting they are in control. Anticipate the next one and prepare a good response that will help you exit. Quiet fade, or big dramatic exit, but you can be in control if you wish. I know I was.
All the best for tomorrow take care love Kate xx
No such thing really as a 'progressive' elder. 'Progressive' means to progress the interests of the organisation kingdom. The unity of the organisation/congregation is paramount, not truth. If that unity is threatened by some wise-ass apostate then make no mistake, you will be sacrificed and betrayed by your nice, young, 'progressive' elder friend.
Here's an experience of a "chat" I had that won't be in any WT yearbook:
A while after I'd been removed as an elder and become much less active, the new CO came through and asked to have a chat with me Sunday after the meeting. He seemed like a nice guy, and I'd had enough "chats" that I knew what to say and not say. Instead of taking me in the library, like usual, he invited me to lunch. He purposely chose a restaurant where there were no JWs.
The conversation went nothing like I suspected. It was only a very few minutes about what had happened in my case. I explained what really happened because he said the local brothers explained my removal in a way that made absolutely no sense. When he asked, I said that I had no desire to appeal or to ever serve on that body in the future. He explained how relieved he was that I didn't want him to do anything about that mess.
The rest of the conversation, more than an hour, was about all the BS that he's been through. He was a single guy with nobody to confide in about his problems, concerns, and needs. Clearly, he was asking for my advice. Even though he didn't know me personally before that week, he'd heard good things about me from people we knew in common. So he unloaded a lot of things on me as a long-time bethelite who has been shafted frequently... and is now getting on with life. We didn't talk about teachings, but it was a lot about real experiences and I leveled with him on something he already realized: Don't trust them to look out for you. They can and will 'throw you under the bus' at any moment.
He took my advice, even more quickly than I would have imagined. Before his next visit and even before the next circuit event, he was off the road.
Captain, Here's a couple of threads that might be helpful.
In case issues of doctrine come up: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/254990/1/exJW-Psychology-102-How-to-Ask-a-Question-When-Questions-Arent-Allowed#.UtrC_LTnaUl
Depressed? Here's how I played that game: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/256052/1/exJW-Psychology-104-One-Way-to-Play-the-Depression-Card#.UtrDj7TnaUl
Even in a one-on-one conversation, "confidentiality" is a two-edged sword (something I need to update on this thread, too): http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/255058/1/exJW-Psychology-103-Lets-Reconsider-Confidentiality#.UtrD6LTnaUk
How about simply claiming confusion about the "generation" teaching?
A little risky I suppose, as it is discussing doctrine. But who could really fault you for basically saying "I just don't understand how one generation equals two groups from 1914 until now. I mean, that really sounds kind of crazy, don't you think?"
Thanks for your best wishes folks, yadda, I appreciate your viewpoint but my optimism and instinct (due to previous conversations with said elder) lead me to think he's a genuine bloke, so I don't feel too apprehensive about opening up (a little) to him. Kate, I can't bring myself to exit yet, I don't wanna disappoint my elderly parent, so I think slow fade is the way to go. I don't mind expressing myself A LITTLE to one of the body so they know there's a reason for my inactivity and I'm not just being lazy (and COULD be gee'd up with a little encouragement) especially if it's a difficult unanswerable question I'm struggling with. And Billy, Thanks for that, I've already read those threads but it's dead handy having them linked together here, I'll definitely be going over them againagain! Lost generation, I had already decided in my mind to stick to ONE issue, and that was going to be the generation one, since if I picked the FADS then that really could spell serious trouble! Like I said earlier, the elder already recognises the scriptural difference between doubters and apostates so if I play up the 'struggling with doubts, working on it' card, it may well buy me some breathing room. Or it might well mark me as a project. In which case it's time to say thanks but no thanks, I'll work it out with jehovah, leave me alone.
All cult members have a genuine personality. Problem is, they also have a cult personality that can be manipulated and brought to the surface at any moment. Don't trust that anything you say will be kept in confidence perpetually.
Be careful Captain Blithering, these 'visits' are designed into the sytem or more than just 'encouragment'.
I am sure from talking to you that you have a plan. If things coming out now is not part of it, don't go there. They don't take ANY insubordination lightly. Most JW's disagree with beard doctrines etc, most young elders are a little more liberal...
But don't forget what you are dealing with...... if ....if... you have a plan.
I had one 'chat', I intended it, but things moved VERY quickly. I simly asked about owning a miliary company (rand cam), controversial doctrines and the authenticity of the literature. Within 7 days I was banned from a wedding party and labeled dangerous
Thanks snare, I must admit , it's not in the 'plan' , but half of me wants a witch hunt to happen so the missus can see how stupid and controlling it all is. We've had conversations where I've told her how bad it COULD get of I express my opinions, and she's always downplayed it, saying I'm worrying too much , so if bad stuff happens, it could well wake her up. But that's not the actual plan. Yet.
