IF YOU HAVE EVER MADE AN IMPACT ON A JW

by In_between_days 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  In_between_days

  Hi all,

  SOmething I would REALLY appreciate feedback for...

  If any of you have ever made and impact on a JW what was it? What was the one sentance, or one seed of doubt that made their brains start ticking? Were you sucessful? Where are these people who you made an influence on now?

  I have been wondering for months the one question that could make them think...

  What have YOU got a blank, shocked look from? What have you got interest from, what topic IN PARTICULAR?

  I know this has been addressed frequently, but I just want a PERSONAL experience from as many people as possible.

  Thanking you all
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  jerome

  Rember this.

  There is no majic word that will make a JW do anything which may be considered by thinking persons to be rational.

  If it were that easy there wouldent be a WBTS.

  But anyways one of the biggest is the United nations Scandal.

  If any JW takes the time to look it up it will definetly cause them some discomfort.

  The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and there may be hell to pay.
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  morrisamb

  This might surprise you, but in 18 years of not being a Witness, I know I have had an impact by not saying something to them. They have to talk to me first and then I will. I also never try to convince a Witness not to be one, just like I don't try to change a Baptist, a Catholic, born-agains, a Bhuddist, etc. I'm not in the change-your-faith business.
  I just don't get this focus on changing Witnesses. My father has made a career out of his hatred for Witnesses. What a waste of a life. I should add that his "career" was interspersed with his abuse of 5 wives and several children.
  I focus on people, WHO THEY ARE TODAY, not what they once were and certainly not what I think they should be.
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  In_between_days

  Jerome,

  I got told in chat room the other night that theres no brilliant thing you can say to enlighten a JW - I know, but... there must be something that makes them think.

  Yes, the U.N issue....

  mmm...

  I got all the proof for my family, they were eager to refute that the WT was ever affiliated with the U.N

  When I proved it was so, they wrote a letter to Brooklyn

  You can guess the reply.

  Well, they were shocked, but said that they believed the answer.

  They reasoned that the U.N is such a huge intricate organisation, that there would be lots of loopholes and clauses in the requirements, and that the WT had done nothing wrong.

  They then refused to discuss it anymore when I easily refuted this.

  What would be your response?
• 

  AlanF

  I impacted one in the nose once. Sometimes I impact them in the brain, but they usually don't notice.

  AlanF
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  In_between_days

  Morrisamb,

  I understand your thinking and your reasoning,

  i would be interested to know whether you were shunned by your family when you left, or if they refuse to talk to you about anything JW associated?

  You see, it's very very hard for the people on this forum to not want to change peoples minds, as they know that these people who are shunning them are doing it because of their brainwashing by the organisation. The other religions you mentioned do not shun their family members for leaving.

  It is very frustrating to be looked down upon by people you love, especially when you know that the force that is moving them to do so is FALSE, it creates resentment on the shunned individuals part, understandably, I hope you can see.

  The people on this forum LOVE their family. They are not the seething monsters the society make them out to be. They only want to free their familys and friends from entrapment.
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  morrisamb

  Thanks for asking. I don't discount others' experiences by being honest about where I'm at.
  Well, my experience is unusual in this sense. By the time I left, every member of my immediate family except for my mother had been disfellowshipped or disassociated for several years. I was the last of 4 siblings to leave. It was I who didn't have anything to do with them for a time and humbly asked their forgiveness for having shunned them. After some growing pains, forgiveness and so on, you wouldn't believe how close we all are today. That is a miracle, let me tell you!
  Here's another shocker, we are all close to our Mother who is still a Witness. Yes she has received flak occasionally for seeing us ...on the other hand many Witnesses have supported her decision to do so. I would say probably those who think she shouldn't speak to us mark her in some way but she wouldn't let them say one word to her about this anymore. She regrets the years she shunned her other 3 children and I helped her see that light.
  She loves her God and all 4 of us accept that fact. We NEVER discuss her faith or our lack of it and that's how we get along. In fact, she's been sick for years with Chronic Fatigue Syndrom so she doesn't get to meetings..they visit her and bring her the tapes. When she first told me she wasn't going to go because she was sick, I warned her many Witnesses will give her a hard time. I was right but they soon learned to keep their mouth shut around my mother. (I take right after her, or is it she takes after me?!) I have told her, when you feel better, I'll drive you to the meetings and pick you up after. This faith makes her happy; it didn't me. I can live with that.
  Don't think that I don't think I was brainwashed. I know I was. I've just seen so much shit happen to people in and out of many different kind of faiths, I choose not to focus on the Witnesses.
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  In_between_days

  Morrisamb,

  Fair enough then, and peace be with you.
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  jerome

  Your family dosent want to know about anything putting the Watchtower in a bad light as far as I can see. But dont let that stop you from trying.

  I think that you should lay low for a while until they forget about it (the discusions).

  Basically I have realized thaat the Waatchtower has done something to witnesses that just makes them plain unreasonable. I dont know what to call it but its there in all JWs that I have come across.

  All the roads in conversation with a JW are blocked. You have to ask (sorry I meant beg) them to listen to you because there is no other way to make progress (that I have come across) directly.

  The response that you got dosent surprise me because I think that everyone here on this board has incountered it before.

  Just think about what would happen if they were willing to listen?

  I'll bet that it went this way.

  1) They said:

  " That is a lie! I dont want to hear it."

  Somehow you manage to convince them to listen. All along they seem to have the impression that nothing will come of it.

  2) Then after you get their attention for a while they say:

  "Ok, but I KNOW that they had a good reason."

  But at this point all you energy was wasted trying to get them to listen because they wont even let you finish a sentence.

  3) They recieve verification. Then they look for the tiniest itsy bitsy bit of error in the document just so that you can discredit the whole thing.

  At this stage they smile uncontrollbly and their aggorance pisses you off because you know that there response could be described as stupid to say the least.

  I call this the JW look of pride.

  It is really sickening. Rasies your blood pressure.

  At this point your thinking to yourself 'how could anybody be so difficult to talk to?' Why cant they just be reasonable?

  You are really fustrated by just thinking about it. But you press on.

  4) You refute their response.

  This is when they show their true cultic colors and get real dam pissed to f*** off at you. You ask them why are they getting so upset "I just want a peacefull discussion"but they wont hear any of it.

  This is when they refuse to listen to what ever you have to say untill they cool off.

  And if you dont do something their attitude will remain the same for a very long time.

  Every time you bring up the issue they will either continue on where they left off and get really pissed off at you again for bringing it up or they will leave. Either way there will be no meaningfull discussion for a long period.

  [The above sequence of events can last anywhere from 2-6 discussion over several days or however long]

  Do what ever works best i'll be back with more advise.

  I would like you opinion on the sequence of events in comparison to what actually happened in your situation.

  jerome

  The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and there may be hell to pay.
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  Introspection

  I'm with Morrisamb here. I don't try to throw a wrench in the works, you just don't know what might happen. In my position as a technically inactive publisher, doing something like that may send enough of a ripple so that they do actually start shunning me, so that I won't be able to talk to anyone else anymore. Besides that, people do have a tendancy to project some kind of hidden agenda or ulterior motive, making up some story about you being unhappy and wanting them to be unhappy, even if the opposite is the case. The mere mention of anything that doesn't agree with them, even if you only express it as your own thoughts, will bring up judgements in most people's minds, and certainly more so with JWs. There are plenty of issues you can bring up, but I guess I'm just trying to deal with them as people too.

  In Between, I think what you experienced with the U.N. issue was in fact a lack of desire for the truth. For anyone who wants to find out what the truth is, they have to first inquire. Someone who believes that they already know will tend to be closed minded, yet we see even the bible says it is noble minded to keep looking.

  Since most people are used to looking at things with a dualistic view, it may be helpful to see how having these two sides can help an individual leaving their witness identity behind. I think it's all fine and good to have people who show you the way out, but then people usually need support after they leave. I don't think shredding JW's is support, which is also not a statement of judgement against those who do, I'm simply looking at it from the perspective of how the newly out person will get along in the world. One thing I think about is how the person can be free from even the identity of being an ex-JW. That's just another side of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. That's why when the witnesses do talk to me I just talk to them like a friend, they never seem to want to explicitly bring up anything, so I figure they're not ready for it. But at the point where they do decide to leave and they do know that I've been gone, I would think that friendliness will be remembered, along with comments about happy I seem and so on. So I see myself on this end of it, offering a kind of support. To be honest with you, I didn't know if this will work in practice, but I saw a glimpse of this at a recent ex-JW potluck, so now I'm thinking it is possible. In fact, the ones I talked to weren't even newly out, so I think this is something that is quite useful for ex-JW's in general.

  Now of course this kind of begs the question, what exactly do I have to offer them? Well for a serious lack of better words, it would be something "positive" as opposed to "negative." (that being the negation of the truth of JW teachings and such) Of course, it would only be one way, and the things that have "worked" for me are simply there for them as ideas. I don't think most people are ready for a completely or even primarily negative way. Even though you might have a cleaner slate, it's just kind of heavy on that end whereas it could be more balanced, and it probably helps to see it in another "ex-JW." Of course, anyone can do that, and nothing prevents a person from working on both ends of the process. However, I just think it's worth pointing out that you have to have something "positive" to offer if you're going to do that. Someone who does not have it, and perhaps is even in need of it themselves are simply not in a position to offer anything on that end.