IF YOU HAVE EVER MADE AN IMPACT ON A JW

by In_between_days 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Yadira Angelini
    Yadira Angelini

    Dear Morrisom,

    Thanks for sharing; your post has impacted me a great deal.... Especially about your dear mother. She loves her God and you and your siblings know it... I can sense it by her ability to keep you close to her, regardless of her commitment to the org... indeed, she has chosen the better part. She must be very strong. Morrison, be glad to be her kid.

    About this thread's topic, I would like to share that I did impacted my daughter, bluesapphire, when we used to talk back and forth about our differences in doctrines. She was on her half way out of the JWs. She came to visit me one night and all of a sudden I asked her: "why don't you start your own church?"... she left mad at me.... BUT THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF HER TURNING BACK TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. She can share more as it is her 'thing'... She told me just recently that was her 'turning point'... hopefully, she will join in this thread and say it with her own words...

    Now, I'm not saying that I'm the one responsible for that outcome. I'm just want to make a point and validate that many times, we could throw a piece of our mind and BINGO! I respect Morrisan's position about leaving her mom alone... who knows? by been close to her, she has been exposed enough to see 'wordily' people been as nice even to offer her a ride to the KH... that is AGAPE LOVE. Love and blessings,

    Yadira

  • Yadira Angelini
    Yadira Angelini

    Sorry son, it is morrisamb. I'm getting to old. LOL

    Yadira

  • morrisamb
    morrisamb

    Thanks Yadira for the kind words. I agree love will accomplish more words than "logic". And Boy Introspection, your name was well chosen!
    Very interesting comments. Actually I think this thread and the comments it elicits are very complex in that there are millions of possible answers.
    Just some random thoughts...While I think that those who leave the Witnesses need a sense of belonging -- well, they definitely need a strong peer support group, and if this board is the only peer group they have, this "family" is extremely important -- I think there is a danger identifying oneself as only an ex-Jehovah's Witness.
    I for one say, Yeah, I used to be one. Next question, point, whatever. BECAUSE, it means squat to me. I refuse to let my identity be defined by one religious group. I am a human being, part of worldwide family of human beings that are blood brothers and sisters. As in any group I visit, I like some of you and some of you, we're just going to not hit it off. It doesn't make one of us better. We're just different and there's enough unity within those differences to tolerate each other.
    I think that labels can be destructive.
    And I think trying to change a Witness CAN BE destructive. It can also be abusive. But most important, it can invite abusive comments in return. Comments that are supposed to remind us how we of the Devil, unworthy, unrepentent. I say, "Whatever!"
    I refuse to engage in such banter. I don't recognise their stamp of disproval.
    Just some food for thought...

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Morrisamb, your comments reminded me of one thing, and that is from my perspective I do not see any support I would have to offer as a providing a kind of belonging, rather I would say that I support them as individuals finding their way. This is not a contradiction with the idea of being an "independent thinker" as the witnesses might have it. The fact is you are an individual who chose to become a witness or whatever other religion, it isn't about being rebellious but rather using your natural mental faculties to make wise choices. I would also say that in facing the unknown I would like to see anyone embarking on a life outside of the witness world change fear or insecurity into a kind of curiousity and love for life. Not only is this a more honest attitude toward life but also a more interesting one.

    So, while I haven't gone out of my way to make any kind of "point", I believe I have some kind of impact, even though the results may not be seen and it may be in a very subtle and general way. Who knows, maybe some day I'll find out something was said (or not said) at the right time for a certain witness I talked to, or maybe it'll never happen. Meanwhile, life goes on.

  • rmayer32
    rmayer32
    I impacted one in the nose once. Sometimes I impact them in the brain, but they usually don't notice.
    AlanF

    Now that sounds like the best way to impact most of them as far as I'm concerned.

    -Rick

  • In_between_days
    In_between_days

    Jerome,

    Your analysis was absolutely SPOT ON

    " That is a lie! I dont want to hear it."

    actually it went like this: *(after I showed them an N.G.O's requirements)

    "There is absolutely no way that the WT could be an N.G.O."

    Ok, but I KNOW that they had a good reason."

    It went like this:

    "They did'nt know, it had something to do with Sep 11 and a new clause, to tighten things up there are heaps of loopholes in the U.N"

    quote:
    They recieve verification. Then they look for the tiniest itsy bitsy bit of error in the document just so that you can discredit the whole thing.

    They focused completely on the quote that said being an N.G.O did not incorporate them into the U.N system, nor does it give them any privelages. They focused on this, and saw nothing of the surrounding text.

    This is when they show their true cultic colors and get real dam pissed to f*** off at you. You ask them why are they getting so upset "I just want a peacefull discussion"but they wont hear any of it.

    Yes, lots of anger and defense.

    Jerome, you have been through something similar?

    At the moment I am not talking about it, in fact I have given up on the U.N topic.

    But I do know, that every time they hear a talk on neutrality or witness about it, they'll be thinking about this.

    Q: Jerome, why do witnesses blatantly refuse to call the U.N for verification? I have urged people to do this a number of times and they will not - why cant they just do it and prove that they are right if they are so sure that they are?

    I appreciate your responses greatly.
    Thank you also Introspection, morrisamb and Yadira
    I am enjoying being here with you all.

  • Fatal Error
    Fatal Error

    The UN is Satan's organisation, why would they ever wanna CALL them up??

    Far too risky, especially considering the pertson already has a persecution complex, suffers from innordate amounts of guilt just from looking at the document and considering it...

    I personally stick to the Bible, impress the importance of Jesus in the NT, as opposed to God, and fling in Matt 24:23 without discussing it, I find they often sit in silence after the chat, and come back to that one. It's pretty damming and straightforward.

    Only using the Bible works for me, every time I've pointed out flaws in the Society, they view it as an attack and close down. Forgotten the scripture now, but the blind man led by the blind will suffer the same fate, that drives a wedge in the breach that matt 24:23 creates..

    Any other ideas?

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    In my experience no amount of beating them over the head with the truth works UNTIL they're ready to see for themselves, usually after some bad experience with the BORG.


    YERUSALYIM
    "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
    [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

  • blondie
    blondie

    Keep in mind "The Emperor's New Clothes."

    The Emperor's New Clothes
    by Hans Christian Andersen

    Once upon a time there lived a vain Emperor whose only worry in life was to dress in elegant clothes. He changed clothes almost every hour and loved to show them off to his people.

    Word of the Emperor's refined habits spread over his kingdom and beyond. Two scoundrels who had heard of the Emperor's vanity decided to take advantage of it. They introduced themselves at the gates of the palace with a scheme in mind.

    "We are two very good tailors and after many years of research we have invented an extraordinary method to weave a cloth so light and fine that it looks invisible. As a matter of fact it is invisible to anyone who is too stupid and incompetent to appreciate its quality."

    The chief of the guards heard the scoundrel's strange story and sent for the court chamberlain. The chamberlain notified the prime minister, who ran to the Emperor and disclosed the incredible news. The Emperor's curiosity got the better of him and he decided to see the two scoundrels.

    "Besides being invisible, your Highness, this cloth will be woven in colors and patterns created especially for you." The emperor gave the two men a bag of gold coins in exchange for their promise to begin working on the fabric immediately.

    "Just tell us what you need to get started and we'll give it to you." The two scoundrels asked for a loom, silk, gold thread and then pretended to begin working. The Emperor thought he had spent his money quite well: in addition to getting a new extraordinary suit, he would discover which of his subjects were ignorant and incompetent. A few days later, he called the old and wise prime minister, who was considered by everyone as a man with common sense.

    "Go and see how the work is proceeding," the Emperor told him, "and come back to let me know."

    The prime minister was welcomed by the two scoundrels.
    "We're almost finished, but we need a lot more gold thread. Here, Excellency! Admire the colors, feel the softness!" The old man bent over the loom and tried to see the fabric that was not there. He felt cold sweat on his forehead.

    "I can't see anything," he thought. "If I see nothing, that means I'm stupid! Or, worse, incompetent!" If the prime minister admitted that he didn't see anything, he would be discharged from his office.
    "What a marvelous fabric, he said then. "I'll certainly tell the Emperor."

    The two scoundrels rubbed their hands gleefully. They had almost made it. More thread was requested to finish the work.

    Finally, the Emperor received the announcement that the two tailors had come to take all the measurements needed to sew his new suit.
    "Come in," the Emperor ordered. Even as they bowed, the two scoundrels pretended to be holding large roll of fabric.

    "Here it is your Highness, the result of our labour," the scoundrels said. "We have worked night and day but, at last, the most beautiful fabric in the world is ready for you. Look at the colors and feel how fine it is." Of course the Emperor did not see any colors and could not feel any cloth between his fingers. He panicked and felt like fainting. But luckily the throne was right behind him and he sat down. But when he realized that no one could know that he did not see the fabric, he felt better. Nobody could find out he was stupid and incompetent. And the Emperor didn't know that everybody else around him thought and did the very same thing.

    The farce continued as the two scoundrels had foreseen it. Once they had taken the measurements, the two began cutting the air with scissors while sewing with their needles an invisible cloth.

    "Your Highness, you'll have to take off your clothes to try on your new ones." The two scoundrels draped the new clothes on him and then held up a mirror. The Emperor was embarrassed but since none of his bystanders were, he felt relieved.

    "Yes, this is a beautiful suit and it looks very good on me," the Emperor said trying to look comfortable. "You've done a fine job."
    "Your Majesty," the prime minister said, "we have a request for you. The people have found out about this extraordinary fabric and they are anxious to see you in your new suit." The Emperor was doubtful showing himself naked to the people, but then he abandoned his fears. After all, no one would know about it except the ignorant and the incompetent.

    "All right," he said. "I will grant the people this privilege." He summoned his carriage and the ceremonial parade was formed. A group of dignitaries walked at the very front of the procession and anxiously scrutinized the faces of the people in the street. All the people had gathered in the main square, pushing and shoving to get a better look. An applause welcomed the regal procession. Everyone wanted to know how stupid or incompetent his or her neighbor was but, as the Emperor passed, a strange murmur rose from the crowd.

    Everyone said, loud enough for the others to hear: "Look at the Emperor's new clothes. They're beautiful!"

    "What a marvellous train!"

    "And the colors! The colors of that beautiful fabric! I have never seen anything like it in my life!"

    They all tried to conceal their disappointment at not being able to see the clothes, and since nobody was willing to admit his own stupidity and incompetence, they all behaved as the two scoundrels had predicted.

    A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.
    "The Emperor is naked," he said.

    "Fool!" his father reprimanded, running after him. "Don't talk nonsense!" He grabbed his child and took him away. But the boy's remark, which had been heard by the bystanders, was repeated over and over again until everyone cried:

    "The boy is right! The Emperor is naked! It's true!"

    The Emperor realized that the people were right but could not admit to that. He though it better to continue the procession under the illusion that anyone who couldn't see his clothes was either stupid or incompetent. And he stood stiffly on his carriage, while behind him a page held his imaginary mantle.

  • chester
    chester

    I brought my wife to this forum last night and read her the entire story of how Amazing got his family "OUT".

    I also took her to Randy's Watters site and read her some of the stories of the Bethelites that have left.

    I showed her the story of the Raymond Franz incident.

    I also showed her VeniceT's web site and the story of the Tacoma dome parking scandal. She said she would like to meet Venice.

    I stopped into chat but froze after I got in there and did not say anything. I would like to say that I am sorry to the folks that were in there for being so rude.

    I accomplished a lot last night in showing her that "apostates" are really okay people.

    These are the people who are the real "truth seekers" These are the “real friends”. She sees that very clearly now.

    And to think I used to have to try and not let her see that I was on the computer. She has reached the point where she asks me to go on there and read this information to her.

    Thanks to all of you for sharing your stories and experiences. Thanks for putting put your web sites.

    You just don’t know how much this information has meant to me.

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