Did judge Rutherford piss off Hitler

by greenhornet 109 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • SimonSays
    SimonSays

    And that piece of information points to some things that I find interesting about the JWs and WW2 – how the WTS and the JWs fit, and don’t fit, within the historical narrative of blood medicine.


    The WTS is blood guilty. And not just for those who died during the war in concentration camps, but also for those who have died since by following the WTS’ directive to refuse blood transfusions. The WTS has deceived the world with the blood doctrine because the roots of the blood transfusion ban aren’t in the Bible – the roots can be found in Nazi Germany during WW2.


  • kaik
    kaik

    OrphanCrow, some of the information are available in the Czech or Slovak language; and can be obtained by request in local courts, by DoJ, and at the Institute of Totalitarian studies. The collaboration of JWs under communists is well documented, published, and researched subject in former Czechoslovakia. There are also peer review articles and the material is became rather extensive in the last 25 years. WWII topic is also well covered as Germans were excellent in record-keeping during Protectorate. However, there is a gap of information between the end of WWII and the communist takeover in 1948 and almost no data available to the public.

    So, if I have read documents that JWs were investigated by revolutionary tribunal in 1945 residing in chateau of Reichprotector and other document said there were Bible Students from Germany, it is difficult distinguish if they talked about the same people or two chateaus of Reichprotectors of Lina Heydrich or Carola Blazek Frank. Both had own servants and own chateau which were even located in the same city on outskirt of Prague (Panenske Brezany). Czech speakers in 1945 would not use Bible students for local JWs, and publications printed in Prague used Jehovah Witnesses already in 1930's. Therefore, there is a mess what these documents say and without access to original source, it is just a wild guess. Lina was from Germany, but Carola was Sudeten German from northern Bohemian city of Most (Brux in German), which had the largest Germans speaking JW community prior WWII. However, Most was also an enclave of biggest Czech speaking population in Sudetenland and thus Czech speaking JWs would fall under jurisdiction of local courts. Meanwhile Lina's JWs would be immediately expelled to Germany and Czechoslovak courts would not deal with them at all. I have heard about the accusation of JWs compliance with Nazi during Protectorate already under communists, but again without peer material it is hard to say if it was just a hearsay.

    Era between 1945 and 1948 in postwar Central Europe was very chaotic, which is also symbolized by mass population transfers. Even widespread postwar massacres are almost undocumented. 20 years ago my friend was looking for her grandmother killed during wild expulsion of Germans from Brno in May of 1945. While thousands of people were interred and executed, she was unable to find any information at all. It seems like all records were destroyed. 65-70 years later, all the witnesses are dead. Therefore, it would be interested how the retributive courts dealt with some collaboration accusations. Many of the these peoples courts and revolutionary tribunals were not even official and they deliberately had not left any paper trails. The institute of Totalitarian studies in Prague does not really cover these dark years.

    Researching names for collaboration with the communist secret police is interesting. In Czech Republic all these information are available to public by laws, and once you obtain the document ID you can receive copy of the material. I have researched various names of people I knew within KH, my extensive family, friends, colleagues, and neighbors. I have find names of elder and his wife with their address and DoB among these documents, and also a person who was not JW but spied for information about them among our local congregation. Any case, if these people collaborated with Stalinist regime in 1949-1953, I am sure people collaborated in WWII.

  • FusionTheism
    FusionTheism

    I actually have no problem at all with Rutherford and Witnesses writing letters condemning Adolf Hitler and speaking truth to power, especially evil power.

    We should all stand up and condemn evil wherever we find it.

    To me, it looks like a case of blaming and shaming the victims (JWs) instead of the evil monster (Hitler) who committing the atrocities.

  • glenster
    glenster

    I made a timeline of Russell, Rutherford, etc., and secular leaders at the
    next link. Rutherford was notorious for having JWs provoke for headlines for
    his sales then, always, claim persecution.
    http://glenster1.webs.com/gtjbrooklyn6.htm

    Rutherford, failing to get special approval from Hitler, threatened to bring
    him down (from his US home) by sending unarmed JWs through Germany to reveal
    the truth about him. After that JWs started appearing in prison camps.

    Hitler was an a-hole, but would anyone want Rutherford in charge of doing that
    to them? Rutherford just stepped up his usual venom for any leaders--including
    Allied leaders--as deserving to fall. The history of the JWs leaders' peddling
    of antisemitism deserves attention, too.

  • Bangalore
    Bangalore

    The WT have whitewashed their history regarding the Nazi era.

    Bangalore

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    It could be accurate to say that Rutherford's letters to Hitler added heighten attention to the JW organization by virtue of Hitler's lower men to investigate the organization and what they stood for. When this was done and it was found out that the JWS were Zionist supporters and have positioned themselves directly against the Catholic church which Hitler was brought in.

    So in some ways Rutherford's actions may have fueled the flames against the JWS in Germany at the time.

    I'm sure they would have been detained anyways for refusing to serve in the military but Rutherford may have indirectly made things worse for the JWS, not better by his intervening involvement .

  • kaik
    kaik

    Many JWs did suffer and died under Nazi regime for their faith. There is no debate on it. However, it is crucial to say that some died due own negligence and sheer irresponsibility. For example in May 1942, 3rd highest ranking Nazi official of the Reich, R. Heydrich, was assassinated by Czechoslovak underground resistance at the outskirts of Prague. The retaliation was immediately brutal, thousands of people were executed, and small city of Lidice was leveled and all men slaughtered. Martial law was declared throughout Protectorate and everyone was required to carry identification IDs. An elder from northern Moravia encouraged his congregation to destroy their IDs or not present them to the occupational forces by arguing with Revelation 13:16. During the peak of the Nazi oppression, JWs in that congregation went to the field service without any proof of identification, where they got arrested and executed. Totally unnecessary.

  • FusionTheism
    FusionTheism

    Do we blame the Jewish victims in the Holocaust for practicing their faith or for speaking out against Hitler?

    Most people usually consider them to be brave heroes.

    I think anti-Watchtower bias and bitterness is showing through on some of these comments.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The actual name that Rutherford created for his organization the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't exactly help in the over all evaluation by the anti semitic Nazis. Taking on the pseudo Hebrew name of the god of the Jews (Jehovah) instead using the Christan name of Jesus Christ, didn't help either. It was obviously to the Nazi leaders that the JWS were theologically Jewish sympathizers.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I think anti-Watchtower bias and bitterness is showing through on some of these comments.

    I disagree, I think the comments so far is to ascertain what did actually happen to the JWS under Hitler Natzism.

    I guess one could say the JWS were essentially heroes to stand up for their beliefs or at least stand up unsupportive to Natzi idealism instigated by Hitler's totalitarian dictatorship.

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