by Yerusalyim 22 Replies latest jw friends
Mimily,
No real connection can be made between celibacy and pedophilia any more than one can draw a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. The fact is, most pedophiles are married, and most victims are family members.
Having said all that, yes, I think celibacy should be Optional for priests in the Catholic Church. Not all are given the gift, but for those that have it, it's a powerful gift.
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
Hmm, I didn't mean to imply that I think there is any connection between celibacy and pedophilia or homosexuality. I was suggesting that when adults are frustrated - who do they normally take their stress of any kind out on? Kids. If someone was going to try to keep something a secret, it would be easier to manipulate, scare, blackmail kids. That's why I asked about the celibacy oath.
As for homosexuality - I think it's genetic (aka - they don't choose it, they are born that way) It's darn possible that pedophiles are as well. Gawd, I probly opened a can of worms with this one.
Anyhoo... thanks Yeru :)
I am thrilled about this even though it is a few years late.
But I think you guys are forgetting something. Don't you think the "pointy hat" guy was also responsible for this cover up.
I suspect this cover up is higher than some cardinal. And when that hits the lame street press (especially after the popes stupid remarks to the cardinals from a few weeks ago) look out.
hawk
hawkaw - darn tootin'! Just like the WTS, s**t rolls downhill, so it's gotta start at the top right?
Yeru already pointed out that the pointy hat dude was quite old. And I know I'm not the only one peeved at his room-for-redemption response to what's going on. Dude lost alot of respect on that one. But, Pope's die, they don't step down.
I too am Catholic (non-practicing). And I fully agree with Yerusalym. I feel Cardinal Law should also be held accountable for all that has happened with the pedophile priests he has moved around - fully knowing that these priests will committ the act again. He is just as guilty as those priests who committed the crime. I feel he should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. My husband (who is also a non-practicing Catholic) feels the same as I. So what if he is a Cardinal - he allowed it to continue. If the Cardinal had been an "average joe off the street", he would have been hauled into jail very quickly I am sure.
Hawk,
In what way would the Pope be involved in the coverup? Do you really think he's THAT deeply involved in the internal politics of local churches.
Mimily,
As I understood the "room for redemption" comment it was directed NOT towards pedophiles, but rather towards those priests who violated Celibacy with a man or a woman, not a kid. I COULD BE WRONG, it's happened once before I think, but that's my take on the room for redemption comment.
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
Y,
One of the lawyers who is working on this case is now setting his sites on the "holy see". One does not waste ones time unless there is some "smoke".
In my opinion (note - this is my opinion not fact) - its just a matter of time my friend before Vatican City takes a smack. Why do I think this? Well, big things like this just aren't done at a local level. Also keep in mind that this is a world wide problem, not just a Beantown thingy. Things like this get reported to the higher ups for advice and legal counsel. And the problem with things like this is there is always a "multiple" paper trail in many countries - so it is tough to cover something up.
Hold on my friend. Seeing this church is now refusing to settle these cases in Beantown and there is now a criminal case, they are in for a rough ride form the lamestreet press in Europe and North America.
hawk
Yeru:
...I think celibacy should be Optional for priests in the Catholic Church. Not all are given the gift, but for those that have it, it's a powerful gift.I'm leaning in that direction too but the older generation Catholics aren't going to easily accept it, IMO. I remember when I was just a kid hearing some old "Legion of Mary" ladies saying they wouldn't like to go to Mass knowing the priest had just rubbed his hands all over his wife's booty.
Then there will be the problem of priests having to earn a "real" living -- enough to support families like Protestant ministers. And they will likely not be able to be transferred from Parish to Parish, dragging their kids along jumping from school to school. It would be like a military kid's life for a child of a priest.
On the other hand, I've only met one priest who actually had the option (He was Byzantine) and he isn't married yet far as I know. He is one of the most humble, kind-hearted men I've ever met in my life.
Obviously, some have the gift. I don't know how but they do. Do you foresee this as long as Pope John Paul is around? I don't.
Hawk,
I think what the Lawyer gunning for the Vatican is smelling is MONEY not smoke. Never a more tangled mess would he see than would he try to sue the vatican. They will Make the WTS legal department look like amateurs. I really don't think there's a connection. One thing that would be hard to call into question is the integrity of this particular pope.
BLUE,
The arrangement the Orthodox Churches in America use is that the married priests have to bid for jobs, they DO move around, but not near as much. An Ortho Priest friend of mine was hired at 18.000 a year. NOT MUCH is it. He has two kids.
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
I would feel sorry for the kids, Yeru. Although I'm sure people would hand down clothes to them and stuff. (That's the materialistic side of me talking.)
When I imagine the life of a child of a priest I imagine the life of a child of an elder combined with a service man. Maybe that's due to my experience in the borg.
Don't people like Scott & Kim Hahn and Tim Staples make a decent living? Then why shouldn't a Catholic married priest make at least as much?
How did you know about the Orthodox priests? I never heard that.
