Could Jehovah's Witnesses Have Conquered the Roman Empire with the WTS Message?
by RottenRiley 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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RottenRiley
Full-time Student, why did the Christian Church not get extinguished from the Roman Empire? What made it grow at the break-neck speed, the Empire had plenty of religions and Christianity was a tiny group once upon a time. What made the Christian Religion so desireable, able to soften a people use to Gladiators, Infantcide, Elder Abuse, Slavery, Destruction of the Roman Family, why did a minority religion gain control without the use of violence?
Islam won the Middle East by the Sword and their great lust for blood and loot and spoils, you have to give me some valid reasons to accept your premise the Christian Worldview and authenic concern for the fellow human was not the reason they became the offical religion during the rein of Constantine 325 AD circa. I need more information from you, I am not going to accept one persons opinion, like I don't accept the Watchtower's claim they are God's Channel, throw me some historical bones please!
Are you ready to pay out the Jizya tax for holding your view if they eventually take over the World? When violence challenges the secular thinking population, eventually violence will overtake the Empire. The Christians had no need to conqueor by the Sword or a claim of a special Gnosis only the followers could achieve. The Christian way of life was open to all men and women, the Christian woman's position in the world became elevated, only to be reduced to the worth of a cow in Islam(less than a cow).
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Finkelstein
When you retrospective look back in how Christianity won over the pagan Roman empire, it was
the expressive love and compassion for humanity and the personal involvement acted out as such
by a living god Jesus Christ who was brought to earth to do just that.
No pagan god ever did that in Roman culture.
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The JWs on the other hand aren't necessary that openly loving toward humanity, they are more
focused upon the proliferation of literature that the WTS. produces and they train people to be
their own sales representatives to the public. The problem with the WTS/JWs is that the core operation
of this religious organization is that there has always been a publishing house working at the center of it.
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The created doctrines were devised to enhance the literature sales of the products the WTS. produced,
people that became involved with this organization had to abide by those doctrines or you were pointed out
as just being spiritually weak or unchristian.
Provocation of guilt mixed in with a bit of fear was the long standing tactic used by WTS. as it still is to this
day.
Thats not love by the way thats more about greed for power and control and literature proliferation.
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RottenRiley
Finkelstein, are you aware of the Jizya being charged to Christians now that the Governments in Eygpt, Syria, Iraq and Libya lost the forces protecting the Christians? The Christian Post had a article where the Muslims went in to a Syrian Christians store and held guns to the owners head, they demanded 70,000 in payment of the local currency or forced conversion to Islam or death. The Muslims are now asking for the Poll-Tax, once upon a time, the Muslim took the first-born son to join their military and still charged the Christians and Jews the Jizya, what has the world done by toppling countries leaders that protected everyone's freedom to believe.
Atheist, secularist are not free, they must pay up or pretend to join the religion and be a good Muslim. What a difference between Christianity, while the world pretends to be politically correct, they stick their hand down the crocodiles throat hoping it will satisfy this religious animal hoping to buy more time.
This is only one website, other offical newspapers are keeping these stories on the back pages if they even report it at all. During the 2008 Financial Meltdown, many of the media outlets got massive cash infusions from Oil Money, is that why we don't hear about the killing of Christians in the Middle East? Our friends the Atheist need to understand they are not protected and must stop acting like Islam is not the beast it truly is. I have enjoyed the Atheist Community on JWN, they do understand that Islam is not this kind and gentle animal, other Atheists away from this Board are not so educated.
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ndicated News Syrian Opposition Army Imposes Jizya on Christians in Homs By Robert Spencer www.jihadwatch.org Posted 2012-04-13 22:59 GMT
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." -- Qur'an 9:29
Muslim spokesmen in the West routinely claim that this verse has no applicability in the modern world. Here are yet more Muslims who didn't get that memo. We have seen this recently in Tunisia as well.
"Syrian opposition army imposes Islamic tax on Christians in Homs," from BBC MidEast, April 10 (thanks to David):
Al-Haqiqah in Arabic, a web site published by the opposition France-based Syrian National Council for Truth, Justice, and Reconciliation, on 9 April publishes a 1,300-word "exclusive" report saying that Al-Faruq Battalion, which is affiliated with the opposition Free Syrian Army (FSA), is imposing Jizyah (an extra tax imposed on non-Muslims living under Muslim rule) on Christians in Homs Governorate. The report also says that "hundreds of Pakistani armed men" arrived in Homs to fight against the regular Syrian Army.
The report cites "Syrian citizens in a number of [Christian] villages in Wadi al-Nasara, which is part of Tal Kalakh district in Homs Governorate," saying that "armed men from the Wahhabi Al-Faruq Battalion, which is active in Homs and its districts, have started
asking the residents of those villages to pay Jizyah and Kharaj." Kharaj is the Islamic term for property tax. The report says: "This is the first action of its kind since the Syrian uprising started, or at least since it turned into an 'armed Islamic revolution' and the Islamists dominated the street a few months ago."
The report cites citizens from those Christian villages saying that armed men from the said battalion force citizens to pay the Islamic taxes and threaten to kidnap or kill them or members of their families if they refuse to comply. One citizen is cited saying that "the countryside of the city of Tal Kalakh is now under the mercy of the armed Al-Faruq Battalion members, who are freely roaming the region as if they were the state's security and administrative agency." He says some of those who refused to pay Jizyah had their sons kidnapped or killed. The report, citing this unidentified man, says: "He estimated the number of people who were kidnapped in the region because they refused or were unable to pay Jizyah at more than 20. He said that while there is absolutely no news about some of them, others are certainly kept in detention centres the armed men created in Ammar al-Husn village, which turned into an operation headquarters for the armed men and their authority in the region."...
The report also cites "very reliable local sources" saying that Dayr B'albah district in Homs and the nearby town of Tir M'allah "are now full of Pakistani fighters." The report adds: "This is the first time fundamentalist Pakistani fighters are reported in any of the Arab or Islamic countries that witnessed an influx of foreign Jihadists. The sources explained the presence of these fighters in Syria by saying that almost all of them came from Turkey and Europe, particularly the UK, which has a large Pakistani community numbering millions. This community was and still is the biggest reservoir for fundamentalist fighters outside the Islamic world." The report adds: "The sources said local and Arab armed men, in addition to the residents of the two towns, complain of the difficulty to communicate with these Pakistani mujahidin, as none of them knows Arabic. The two towns are among the most conservative and fanatic regions in Syria. They were an important source for the Muslim Brotherhood and the Combatant Vanguard during the crisis of the eighties."
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apostatethunder
Syrian Christians didn't have any problems until Western countries started supporting the so called "rebels".
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Finkelstein
Finkelstein, are you aware of the Jizya being charged to Christians now that the Governments in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Libya lost the forces protecting the Christians?
Didn't know of that, the Muslims can be notably bigoted and prejudicely hateful to other faiths,
even atheists who are just simply nonparticipants.
But hasn't there always been discernible hatred to any other religion in those heavily populated Muslim
countries ?
Kind of reminds of the way Christianity was during the middle ages with the violence and devastation
of the crusades directly against other faiths. Remember they killed and rampaged for their faith as well.
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RottenRiley
ApostateThunder, thank's to the West's invovlement in the Middle East, we might see the eradication of the Chrisitan Churches in the 21 Century. Why are the Republican and Conservatives not screaming about the plight of the Coptic, Syrian, Iraqi and Libyian Christians? Somebody seems to want all the Christians whacked off! The Republicans voted to give weapons to fight against the Government that protected the Syrian Christians, why can't the Born Again Movement see what is happening? I wish Perry would comment on why the Republican Party is not outraged, they claim to be God's Party!
There is no room for Moderates, if radicals gain control Moderates will be pushed aside and violence will prevail. Since Mohammed was given refuge with the Jewish people after his own people kicked him out of his city, he learned, he married a rich merchant middle aged woman while he meditated on the Jewish and Christian teachings he heard about. The repayment was to make "People of the Book" pay a tax for not becoming a Muslim, now the radicals are starting to enforce the Jizya Tax, a historical truth was many of successful businesses were run by Christians and Jews and the Muslims desired to kick back and tax the hell out of these people until they moved to another Country, some historians said once the excellent merchants left the Muslim Culture suffered greatly, no tax money and poor business opperations caused them to sink back in the dark age. It's not a religion of Enlightment, hatred and killling are considered excellent and demanded of the Muslim.
The man who France kept from getting his head cut off by the Shah of Iran, the Ayatollah Khomeni said that anyone who claims Islam is a religion of peace is a liar because the prophet calls for the believers the total conquest of the World by the Sword. Khomeni was the expert on the Quran. Islam is different from Jesus Christ and even the Jewish Religion. Compare these passages from the Quran regarding the need for the Muslim to Fight and Fight!
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Fighting Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause." Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed." Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission." Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious." Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)." Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'" Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them." Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good." Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace." Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding." Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth." Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, 'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?' The Prophet said, 'Embrace Islam first and then fight.' So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, 'A Little work, but a great reward.'" Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'" Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said: 'Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights." Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place." Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you." Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect Muslims who fight." Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought." Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'" Qur'an:8:73 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)." Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us." Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture." Qur'an:48:22 "If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah." Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam." Qur'an:47:31 "And We shall try you until We know those among you who are the fighters." Tabari VI:138 "Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting." Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.'" Qur'an:9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in Allah's Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah." Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling." Qur'an:5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment." Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory." Tabari IX:22 "The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly." Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant." Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them." Tabari IX:88 "Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and became a good Muslim. Allah's Apostle invested Azdi with the authority over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger's command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew, setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to inflict a heavy loss on them." Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends." Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said: 'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat." Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'" Muslim:C10B1N176 "Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said: 'There is no god but Allah,' but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said: 'Did he profess "There is no god but Allah," and even then you killed him?' I said: 'He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.' The Prophet said: 'Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?'" Muslim:C20B1N4597 "The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: 'There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.'" Muslim:C28B20N4628 "Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word; Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home with his reward and booty." Muslim:C28B20N4629 "The Messenger said: 'One who is wounded in the Way of Allah - and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way - will appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color (of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.'" Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 "The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: 'Who is the best of men?' He replied: 'A man who fights staking his life and spending his wealth in Allah's Cause.'" Muslim:C42B20N4684 "A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: 'Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?' The Messenger of Allah said: 'Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.'" Muslim:C53B20N4717 "The Prophet said: 'This religion will continue to exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight for its protection until the Hour is established.'" Bukhari:V5B59N288 "I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, 'We shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.' I saw the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him." Bukhari:V5B59N290 "The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward." Qur'an:2:193 "Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers." Qur'an:2:217 "They question you concerning fighting in the sacred month. Say: 'Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave their homes to fight in Allah's Cause have the hope of Allah's mercy." Qur'an:2:244 "Fight in Allah's Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all." Qur'an:2:246 "He said: 'Would you refrain from fighting if fighting were prescribed for you?' They said: 'How could we refuse to fight in Allah's Cause?'" Ishaq:280 "The Apostle prepared for war in pursuance of Allah's command to fight his enemies and to fight the infidels who Allah commanded him to fight." Qur'an:61:2 "O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure." Bukhari:V4B52N61 "Allah's Apostle! We were absent from the first battle you fought against the pagans. If Allah gives us a chance to do battle, no doubt, He will see how bravely we fight." Ishaq:398 "Ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage." Qur'an:3:146 "How many prophets fought in Allah's Cause? With them (fought) myriads of godly men who were slain. They never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's Cause, nor did they weaken nor give in. Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [warriors]." Ishaq:393 "How many prophets has death in battle befallen and how many multitudes with him? They did not show weakness toward their enemies and were not humiliated when they suffered in the fight for Allah and their religion. That is steadfastness. Allah loves the steadfast." Qur'an:3:153 "Behold! You ran off precipitately, climbing up the high hill without even casting a side glance at anyone, while the Messenger in your rear is calling you from your rear, urging you to fight. Allah gave you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you and for (the ill) that had befallen you." Qur'an:3:154 "Say: 'Even if you had remained in your houses, those ordained to be slaughtered would have gone forth to the places where they were to slain." Ishaq:440 "Helped by the Holy Spirit we smited Muhammad's foes. The Apostle sent a message to them with a sharp cutting sword." Ishaq:470 "We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting through heads and skulls." Qur'an:61:4 "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause." Qur'an:61:11 "Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah's Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!" Qur'an 61:12 "He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love: help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies." Qur'an:8:5 "Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to fight for the true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to fighting)." Qur'an:24:53 "They swear their strongest oaths saying that if only you would command them. They would leave their homes (and go forth fighting in Allah's Cause). Say: 'Swear not; Obedience is (more) reasonable.'" Qur'an:4:74 "Let those who fight in Allah's Cause sell this world's life for the hereafter. To him who fights in Allah's Cause, whether he is slain or victorious, We shall give him a reward." Qur'an:4:75 "What reason have you that you should not fight in Allah's Cause?" [Another translation says:] "What is wrong with you that you do not fight for Allah?" Qur'an:4:76 "Those who believe fight in the Cause of Allah." Qur'an:4:77 "Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: 'Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?'" Qur'an:4:78 "Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?" Qur'an:4:84 "Then fight (Muhammad) in Allah's Cause. Incite the believers to fight with you." Qur'an:4:94 "Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah's Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: 'You are not a believer!' Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty." Qur'an:4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah's Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward." Qur'an:4:100 "He who leaves his home in Allah's Cause finds abundant resources and many a refuge. Should he die as a refugee for Allah and His Messenger His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. When you travel through the earth there is no blame on you if you curtail your worship for fear unbelievers may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are your enemy." Qur'an:4:102 "When you (Prophet) lead them in prayer, let some stand with you, taking their arms with them. When they finish their prostrations, let them take positions in the rear. And let others who have not yet prayed come - taking all precaution, and bearing arms. The Infidels wish, if you were negligent of your arms, to assault you in a rush. But there is no blame on you if you put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because you are ill; but take precaution. For the Unbelieving Infidels Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment." Qur'an:4:104 "And do not relent in pursuing the enemy." -
fulltimestudent
RR asks:
Why are the Republican and Conservatives not screaming about the plight of the Coptic, Syrian, Iraqi and Libyian Christians?
That's easy RR, these poor buggers do not own any oilwells!
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fulltimestudent
RR - I posted a previous question:
May I start with a general illustration. When the WTS provides its 'proof' that it is God's servant on earth today, do you accept that statement without question?
I think you've answered no!
And yet, Eberhard Arnold's book, "The Early Christians in their own Word,s" relies heavily on the claims of the early church fathers, who may have been writing polemics.
Don't you think, that the claims of the early Christians, if writing as polemicists, should be as subject to critique, as the claims of the WTS?
Another question. Did Arnold have any criteria in selecting quotations from early church fathers? If so, what were the criteria he used? Was he attempting to do anything specific, when he made his selections?
And, it's probably useful, at this point, to post a biography of Arnold. I've selected the Wikipedia account as possibly being reasonably accurate, though in the spirit I'm suggesting, please point any differences between what you already know and the Wiki version:
Eberhard Arnold (July 26, 1883 – November 22, 1935) was a Christian German writer, philosopher, and theologian. He was the founder of the Bruderhof(place of brothers) in 1920.
Arnold was born in Königsberg, East Prussia, Germany, the third child of Carl Franklin and Elizabeth (Voight) Arnold. His father was a doctor of theology and philosophy, and his paternal grandfather was a pastor and missionary of the Evangelical State Church of Prussia's older Provinces. Eberhard Arnold's life as a youth was unconventional. In 1899 at age 16, Arnold experienced an inner change, which he acknowledged as God's acceptance and the forgiveness of sins, and felt a calling to "go and witness to my truth." After he finished school, Arnold studied education, philosophy, and theology in Breslau, Halle, and Erlangen. He engaged in Christian youth work and in evangelism among the poor through the Salvation Army. While in Halle, he became part of the German Student Christian Movement, and its general secretary, in 1907 he and his wife von Hollander seceded from the state church. His work with the Salvation Army increased his sympathy for the oppressed classes of people and strengthened his stand for preaching conversion and salvation. Here in Halle, he also met Emmy von Hollander and married her in 1909.
Arnold was a sought-after speaker in early 20th century Germany. He became troubled by the church's connection to the state, and in 1908, at age 25, Arnold was baptized and left the Protestant state church. In 1915 he became editor of Die Furche (The Furrow), the periodical of the Student Christian Movement, and editor of the Das Neue Werk (New Venture) Publishing House in Schlüchtern, Germany in 1919. At age 37, he abandoned middle-class life. It was then, in 1920, that he moved with his wife and children to the village of Sannerz in central Germany, and founded a community with seven adult members and five children. Here they would attempt to put into practice what Eberhard Arnold believed the Holy Spirit had revealed to him. The community ethic was based on Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. The community experienced both trouble and growth, but by the mid-1920s the Sannerz farm was too small. In 1926, they bought a farm in the Fulda district and established the Rhön Bruderhof. When Arnold discovered that Hutteritecommunities still existed in North America, he contacted them and engaged in a long period of correspondence. In 1930 he traveled to America and stayed for about a year, visiting all the communities of Hutterian brethren in the United States and Canada. In December of that year, he was commissioned by them as a missionary to Europe.
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RottenRiley
Zao Hao Full-time!
How many sources do you need before your able to draw the conclusion something was special about the Christian Church? I don't accept one source, the Watchtower's Bogus Enforced Agreeing with their principles taught me I need to look deeper. I hate how people compare Judasim and Christian Theologies to Islam, there is only evidence Mohammed might have learned from different sources about the Hebrew and Christian Greek teachings but his writings of "hatred", a "Allah the Angry and Spiteful" are not even close to the God we Christians worship!
" A book tightly shut is but a block of paper." Chinese Proverb Are you allowed to accept beliefs that might alter your world-view of Christianity or do you carry a heavy bias against Christianity after the trash you were taught by the Watchtower Organization? I respect people who tell me, "No matter what you tell me, I will alway's believe what I believe" because they don't waste my time. Keep your book open, let's have a honest dialogue but give credit where credit is due, Christianity is no Islam, can we agree on this first point or not?