Marked
The Bible's Buried Secrets, new findings on how the ancient Israelites became supposedly monotheistic
by Finkelstein 41 Replies latest watchtower bible
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troubled mind
watch later
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galaxie
Original hebrew psalm 89:6 .,"Who among the sons of EL (top canaanite god)..is like yahweh." This sounds to me like pokytheism was still around..Modern translations of this scripture seem to deviate from the original hebrew?
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adamah
That's no bimbo-headed TV journalist, BTW.
That's Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou, "Professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion in the University of Exeter's department of Theology and Religion. The main focus of her research is Israelite and Judahite history and religion."
I'd be reluctant to dismiss her, since she's 'dummying down' the topic in order to make for entertaining programming laypersons can understand (she's also published scholastic meticulously foot-noted books on other topics (eg child sacrifice in the time of King Manassah), but she's a favorite "go-to" expert ofBBC for panel discussions and debates for obvious reasons.
You can find the full episodes (60 minutes vs 14 min clips above) for the series on YouTube (BBC doesn't have them up any longer); PBS made an American version of the same topic (Bible's buried secrets), too, but they used other "star experts" (eg Bill Devers) who used their own approach (Dr Devers WROTE a book called, "Did God have a wife?").
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adamah
galaxie said-
Original hebrew psalm 89:6 .,"Who among the sons of EL (top canaanite god)..is like yahweh." This sounds to me like pokytheism was still around..Modern translations of this scripture seem to deviate from the original hebrew?
'Elohim' is a PLURAL word in Hebrew, referring to the Divine Counsel, the members of which are on Team YHWH and serve under His Command. This is seen in the opening scene of the account of Job, where Satan is seen in Heaven (!) acting in the role of God's henchman, testing humans to see if they're loyal to Jehovah.
The shift to monotheism is based on downgrading the status of angels and other spirit beings, and not counting them as "Gods".
The Hebrews didn't actually believe there WEREN'T other Gods (their Canaanite neighbors worshipped foreign and strange deities, and Jehovah said "thou shalt have no other Gods BEFORE ME", implying there WERE other Gods, just that they were declared as inferior Gods).
Heck, that's the entire point of followers of Ba'al competing with Elijah (who's on Team YHWH), trying to prove which God is more powerful. Once dominance is proven, the final step is to claim the other guy's God doesn't even exist.
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galaxie
Adamah ..... the site i was researching made the point that 'elohim' in certain contexts was not always plural(i will check it again as its been a while).But in the context of "who among the sons of" would it not seem fitting the reference to el/elohim would be singular . Also if it referred to a counsel ' under ' yahweh why would it be comparing yahweh to the "sons of..".Just a thought .?
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adamah
galaxie, what I said is somewhat of an over-simplication, but generally speaking, it works ('Eloah' being singular, and likely the same name from which 'Allah' is derived: note the phonetic similarity between 'Eloah' and 'Allah'. I like to point that tid-bit out to Xians who say how Islamists are worshipping the Devil: nope, they worship the deity with the same name, except with just a slight difference in pronounciation due to Arabic influence. Also note the similarity between the sound of the name of the Canaanite God, Ba'al, and Al-lah: local variations of the same root concept of god).
Here's the gory details for the difference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim
The Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible defines "elohim" as a plural of eloah, an expanded form of the common Semitic noun "'il" (ʾēl). [3] It contains an added heh as third radical to the biconsonantal root. Discussions of the etymology of elohim essentially concern this expansion. An exact cognate outside of Hebrew is found in Ugaritic ʾlhm, the family of El, the creator god and chief deity of the Canaanite pantheon, in Biblical Aramaic ʼĔlāhā and later Syriac Alaha "God", and in Arabic ʾilāh "god, deity" (or Allah as " The [single] God").
"El" (the basis for the extended root ʾlh) is usually derived from a root meaning "to be strong" and/or "to be in front". [3]
Dr Heiser is an OT scholar who has written quite extensively on the subject of Elohim, and created a website:
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Vidiot
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that monotheists tend to prevail over polytheists because (historically) they seem to have had a tendency to behave more ruthlessly.
Or perhaps, monotheism has a tendency to attract more ruthlessly-minded individuals.
I'm sure there've been exceptions, of course.
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galaxie
THANKS Adamah,..doesn't quite explain context of the scripture, which in biblical understanding terms is the crux of the matter .Im no hebrew scholar so i always stand to be corrected.
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sir82
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that monotheists tend to prevail over polytheists because (historically) they seem to have had a tendency to behave more ruthlessly.
Sounds like you'd enjoy reading this:
Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
The story of the suppression of polytheistic religions in the ancient world by the ever more powerful monotheistic religions is well known. Kirsch (The Harlot by the Side of the Road) offers his own version of this oft-told tale in a lively and engaging chronicle. Although many scholars point to Israel as the fount of monotheism, Kirsch shows that the earliest impulses toward monotheism can be found in Egypt with pharaoh Akhenaton's attempt to move the nation to the worship of one god. This Egyptian likely influenced Moses, according to Kirsch, and much of the history of early Israel is the history of the worship of one god emerging out of the worship of many gods. Monotheism gained momentum with the development of Christianity and was codified under Constantine. His son Julian strove to return polytheism to the scene by issuing edicts of toleration concerning polytheistic religious customs, but Julian's successor Theodosius I restored monotheism as the official practice of the Empire. Kirsch helpfully points out that the conflict between the worship of many gods and the worship of one true god never disappeared from the lives of Israelites, Jews, or Christians, in spite of many historians' claims to the contrary. In addition, Kirsch observes that monotheistic religions have too often used the worship of one god as a way to persecute those who do not share similar beliefs. While Kirsch breaks no new ground, he demonstrates clearly the ways in which this conflict gave rise to the tensions that exist even within monotheistic religions today.