Do the elders say: "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit" when they are immersing the one being baptized?
Do JWs use the Baptizmal formula?
by Hortenzie 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Hortenzie
Never mind, I just called the Bethel and after a little avoidance dance they said no.
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leaving_quietly
Avoidance dance? Do tell! I'm curious why they don't do this. Did you ask them?
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NAVYTOWN
And they are always harping on the fact that they go by what the Bible says.....
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Hortenzie
leaving_quietly - Here's the story for you:
I'm on a Catholic Answers Forum and somebody asked that question. I was convinced that JW say the formula but somebody said no. I always like to know the facts so I called the Bethel in Georgetown, Canada. Here is how it went (I don't remember the whole conversation exactly, it was longer than my description will be):
Very friendly and cheerful receptionist: Jehovah's witnesses, good afternoon. (a hint of nostagia swept over me) I asked the question and she connected me to the appropriate department. A man answered, I said that somebody at work told me that we don't get baptized in the name of F, S and h s, but I'm pretty sure we do, I even remembered studying what it means to be baptized in their name. I just need to know 'yes' or 'no'. He didn't answer but asked which congregation I'm associated with. I couldn't remember but than I did use a name of a cong. in the area that came to my mind. He said I should ask the elders. I said I haven't been to the meetings in a while, could he just give me a quick answer. He asked what was the question, I repeated the question, he asked if I have a paper and pen, I asked why, he said he will give me references, I asked what for, he said to do my own research in the online library, I again said that I just needed a simple 'yes' or 'no'. I really thought he will not give me the answer and then he suddenly said no, we don't use it. I thanked him for his honesty, hang up, and got really mad how sneaky they are. Nostagia's gone and I'm so glad I'm no longer one of them... And I'm so glad their baptizm isn't valid.
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jwfacts
The elders don't say it, and neither does the person delivering the talk, when asking questions for the candidates to answer. The question is regarding the organisation, rather than the holy spirit. Very sneaky.
Watchtower - 1985 Jun 1 p.30
"The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism." -
label licker
Not any more. I called bethel last week and told them that the visiting brother told the congregation that Jesus is mediator for all of us. Not once mentioning about the 144,000. This was during the public talk and I only knew of it for someone from the congregation called us and laughed about it saying that he is in no way going to tell the speaker any different for he believes also that Jesus is our mediator and not the 144,000 anointed ones. The dummy at bethel had asked me if it were just me and my husband that picked up on this or did we notice if there were others that felt the same way. I said there were others that felt the same way and we just wanted to know if the society had changed their policy on this topic. He said no but that the most important thing here is that I get all my answers through their publications. He asked me if I asked my elders and I told him we are not allowed to ask questions to the elders so then he asked me what congregation it was and who were my elders. I told him I coudn't go to the po for he's in Florida for eight weeks. He goes every winter. See if they do anything with that but I highly doubt it.
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Faithful Witness
Label_licker said: " that the most important thing here is that I get all my answers through their publications."
Wow! They actually said that directly? What about what the Bible says?
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Cold Steel
Are the elders the only ones who can baptize?
If one decides they want to be baptized, how long would they have to wait? And if someone wanted to be baptized, and was baptized by a member of a non-denominational Bible-believing church in a river, and the person was baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, would Jehovah recognize that baptism if the person lived a good, decent, honorable life? Would not being baptized by the Society be enough to have one destroyed at Armageddon?
What I've read about "Christendom" in the Society literature seems to point at money grubbing, primarily Catholic and organized religion that's hypocritical and teach false doctrine. But what if a church has no formal doctrine outside of believing in Jesus and the Bible? Why would the Lord reject the non-denominational baptism when the Society itself denies it's a church?
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Pete Zahut
Hortenzie, what is the phone number that you used ? I have a few questions of my own to ask as well.
They do seem to be on the defensive much of the time but that's what happens when you set yourself up as an authority on a given subject and when you start handing out rules and punishments rather than being there to offer advice and guidance.