Faithfulwitness, that were his exact words to me while I'm looking out my kitchen windows thinking why didn't I tape this. It was the service department in Georgetown, Canada branch. I could not beleive that he said publications instead of bible either.
Do JWs use the Baptizmal formula?
by Hortenzie 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
leaving_quietly
Hmm. Makes one think even more, now, doesn't it. (Thanks for sharing, by the way.)
In the course of events, while A·pol′los was in Corinth, Paul went through the inland parts and came down to Eph′e·sus, and found some disciples; 2 and he said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when YOU became believers?” They said to him: “Why, we have never heard whether there is a holy spirit.” 3 And he said: “In what, then, were YOU baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism [in symbol] of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. - Acts 19:1-5
But, now we know WHY this is.
w08 6/15 29 "Highlights From the Letter to the Romans"
6:3-5—What is meant by baptism into Christ Jesus and baptism into his death? When Jehovah anoints followers of Christ with the holy spirit, they are united with Jesus and become members of the congregation that is the body of Christ, he being the Head. (1 Cor. 12:12, 13, 27; Col. 1:18) This is their baptism into Christ Jesus. Anointed Christians are also “baptized into [Christ’s] death” in that they live a life of sacrifice and renounce any hope of everlasting life on earth. Their death, therefore, is a sacrificial one, as was Jesus’ death, though their death does not have ransoming value. This baptism into Christ’s death is completed when they die and are resurrected to life in heaven.
Apparently, only ANOINTED CHRISTIANS are baptized into Christ. So, not only is Christ the Mediator ONLY for the 144,000, only THEY get baptized into him.
JWs baptize the baptism of John (in symbol of repentence), and they add "and a dedication to do God's will". The first baptism question includes the words: "have you repented of your sins".
Talk about eye-opening!!!
-
Cold Steel
He didn't answer but asked which congregation I'm associated with.
Probably so they'd know who to contact so you could be dealt with...er...I mean, so they could contact you and help answer your question.
He said I should ask the elders.
Yeah...that would work.
I said I haven't been to the meetings in a while, could he just give me a quick answer. He asked what was the question, I repeated the question, he asked if I have a paper and pen, I asked why, he said he will give me references, I asked what for, he said to do my own research in the online library, I again said that I just needed a simple 'yes' or 'no'.
We actually don't have anything in the Bible that describes how and what words are to be said when baptizing a person. I've oft wondered what the words were that John used when baptizing Jesus. How much did the Jews at that time know regarding the Messiah being the son of God. Looking back, we can see in the Old Testament hints and references to the sonship of Jesus, but John was baptizing people in the wilderness. When Jesus came out of the water, everyone heard the words of the Father relating to Jesus being his "beloved Son" and they saw the Holy Spirit descend in the form of a dove. When Jesus went into the water, I don't think John would have said, "Jesus of Nazareth, I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." I could be wrong, but we don't even know what John was teaching -- only that he had quite a following. Nor do we know how many of John's followers subsequently became Jesus' followers.
Having said that, I don't have any question that a person should be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; then immersed and brought out of the water. It's just that the Bible isn't a handbook. It doesn't talk about how to do baptisms, ordinations, the anointing and healing of the sick, etc.
I really thought he will not give me the answer and then he suddenly said no, we don't use it. I thanked him for his honesty, hang up, and got really mad how sneaky they are. Nostagia's gone and I'm so glad I'm no longer one of them... And I'm so glad their baptizm isn't valid.
Do you still feel the need to be baptized?
.
.
-
prologos
wt baptism has become an initiation rite into the organisation;
organisation that is directed by the seven overlapping spirits of you know who. Rev. 3:1
and since you have to agree with all the pre-baptismal questions, and now ALL that has changed, what does that say about the validity of the contract you sealed with that under-water experience?
it is invalid, and not only because the original command reported by the original Bible writers is not follwed.
-
ablebodiedman
The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."The word organization suggests that a specific number of men are given accountabilities to acheive a common purpose.
I strongly recommend that every Jehovah's Witness determines exactly how "God's spirit-directed organization" is organized.
Page 109 of the book; "Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" provides the answer to this question.
On this page you will find a quote from the Governing Body after implementing this organization; "It has proved beneficial to have a number of brothers taking counsel together to consider the interests of the kingdom work".
By their own admission "God's spirit-directed organization" is a "number of brothers".
a number of brothers
a number of men
a man's number
Yes, the baptismal vow is made to "a number of brothers" .... a man's number!
abe
-
ablebodiedman
But these baptismal vows are not considered valid by any Jehovah's Witness until after the candidate is FULLY IMMERSED
So ........................... what is the last part of the body to go under the water?
abe
-
Hortenzie
Pete Zahut - the number is 905-873-4100.
-
Faithful Witness
ablebodiedman: Don't get so technical! ;) Are you qualified to make these analyses? Are you part of the "number of brothers?"
Rule #1 in JW-land: Don't think. Don't criticize. Just obey.
-
-
Faithful Witness
JW baptism is creepy. I'm sorry.
When we were bible students, our teacher encouraged us to come and see the baptism, and he was especially excited to be the one delivering the baptismal "speech." It was long and boring. I found it eerie, hearing all the people agree in a monotone "chant-like" way, about how they were joining the organization.
Months later, I went and watched my sister and brother in law go through this, and I must say that the assembly days were just boring and time-consuming. We went to please our teachers and "friends." We just did not "get" the excitement.
I also saw the blah-zay (sp?) way they reacted, when one new "sister" decided to get baptized. "Oh, she finally decided to go through with it, huh?" Weird response to something that receives so much emphasis. I'm not aware of this woman's history, just that she was always at the meetings when we went.
Just an "outsider's" perspective... it never really "caught on" for us. I guess we are too analytical in our thinking.
