Can we excuse the R&F for ever ?

by Phizzy 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Phizzy

  Generally I go along with it when posters express pity and sympathy for the R&F JW's. I feel this way toward them too, to a degree.

  But where do we draw the line ? we know that JW's do not have a conscience of their own really, they are told how to think and act, and they have to obey.

  Just as those living in Nazi Germany were told how to think and act, and had to obey.

  But, " I was just following orders " was not taken as a valid defense at Nuremburg.

  As the WT descends in to becoming more and more like North Korea in its Do Not Question, Simply Obey ! stance, how much longer can we continue to make excuses for the R&F JW's, who in practising Shunning for example, are "simply obeying orders" ??
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  WT and JWs know the answer to your questions, Phizzy. The problem is, the counsel they accept applies to all other religions except Jehovah's Witnesses. When the GB teaches error and is exposed for massive hypocrisy, and the R & F support it unquestioningly, suddenly the condemnation foisted on everyone else does not apply to the very organization pointing the accusing finger:

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  Awake!, September 8, 1987, pages 10 and 11: Future Prospects for Protestantism—And for You!

  If Your Church Fails to Act, Will You?

  If, after making an honest investigation, you are less than pleased with what you see, do more than just complain. A journalist, while commenting on Karl Barth’s statement that a church is its members, logically concluded: "Church members . . . are responsible for what the church says and does." So ask yourself: Am I willing to share responsibility for everything my church says and does? Can I really be proud of having all its members as spiritual brothers?"
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  punkofnice

  Would we have excused ourselves when we were in?

  I think the mind control had me totally convinced I was in the right religion and also added to the fact I was raised in the cult too.

  Dunno. Specific to each individual methinks.
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  Phizzy

  I think we all excused ourselves when we were in.

  What I am wishing to change, in myself if no-one else, is the attitude that the poor old R&F cannot help it, practising Shunning etc.

  I want to make sure that my mind is made up to speak out against anything like that as I see my JW family and acquaintances doing it, in the past I more often than not have bitten my lip. Not anymore.

  They deserve to be told when they are behaving badly.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  In reality, if JWs are honest with themselves (me included when I was active), they do see many problems with policies, doctrines, etc. But, they turn a blind eye and rationalize---then act as if nothing is wrong. At some point, whether a JW uses the actual words or not, they know they are living a lie.

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  proof of this is in actions, not words. Look at how many JWs, especially elders, say they believe everything the GB says, including that Armageddon will be here any day now. Yet, look at how they live their lives: building businesses, planning for retirement, investing, sending their kids to college, etc. Their actions prove they really do not accept what the GB says as true. The GB doesn't even believe the GB !! If we're on the threshold of Armageddon, as the GB proclaims, why are they buying and selling real estate, investing, and making long-range plans for the Organization by building a new hdqtrs?

  So, if they do not believe it, at what point do they become personally responsible for perpetuating the lie (or, at least, the self-deception and delusion)?

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  Pretending all is well goes only so far...
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  Oubliette

  Phizzy: how much longer can we continue to make excuses for the R&F JW's, who in practising Shunning for example, are "simply obeying orders" ??

  Great question.

  I think it is one thing to UNDERSTAND why they act they way they do. It is another to EXCUSE their behavior.

  I understand without excusing.
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  4thgen

  Yes they share some responsibility however remember they are members of a spiritually abusive religion. They are victomized by men who want total control.Sure some will wake up but how many actually have the courage to leave? Unless they are intentionally being abusive I do not believe we should not blame the victims. Some sheep are just plain ignorant. Its the ones who intentionally spread lies knowingly that should be held accountable
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  Band on the Run

  The comparison between the few Epsicopal churches I've attended and the Witnesses is stark. The lay people viewed themselves as the equals of the clergy. Their role was just as important. Anyone who is a member can run to represent the parish in Conventions, where policy is set. Priests aren't the enemy but they can't tell a lay minister what to think. It may be that I attended large landmark churches but even in Philadelphia law suits were active. The bishop in Philadelphia covered up for his priest brother's pedophile acts. The laity demanded his resignation. He refused. Law suit.

  Can you imagine suing the GB and remaining as a Witness in good standing?

  I don't know about the Nazis and Nuremberg b/c Nuremberg was a selective prosecution. Ordinary soldiers were not convicted.

  I feel that basic education is widespread in society. They should bear some guilt for remaining Witnesses.
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  punkofnice

  Its the ones who intentionally spread lies knowingly that should be held accountable

  I believe the GB are these ones that knowingly screw with people's lives for their own selfish gain.

  Once I woke up I was out cold turkey......yes it messed my life and family up but I am a man of principle....true unto myself.

  I have a lot of self loathing because I was brainwashed by those perverts in Brooklyn. I will never forgive them or myself.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  4thgen: Yes they share some responsibility however remember they are members of a spiritually abusive religion. They are victomized by men who want total control.

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  Agreed. However, read the quote I posted above from Awake! I think nearly 100% of JWs would wholeheartedly endorse that Awake statement as absolutely true and non-negotiable (I know I would have).

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  So, if WT/JWs view members of every other religion as being accountable for what their church says and does, and cannot claim innocence as "victims" of their leaders, why should JWs get a free pass under the guise of being in an abusive cult?

  If a JW comes to recognize there are undeniable, fatal problems in their own religion, equally as bad, or worse, as in other religions (i.e., pedophilia; hypocrisy;scandals;false prophecies, etc.), and they choose to stay in by putting blinders on, why are they not just as culpable as the people they condemn?