Free Will - What a Joke !

by cookiemaster 36 Replies latest jw experiences

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  cookiemaster

  Everytime I hear JW's talking about free will, I either feel the urge to burst in laughter or feel sick. Each publication keeps talking about how wonderful Jokehova is for giving us free will. The only small thing is that he'll kill you if you don't do exactly what he says. How stupid is that ? It's like puttting a gun to someone's head and then saying, go head do as you please, just know that if you don't do exactly what I say I will kill you. Well, how "loving" is that ? How "wonderfully" free God made us !

  Honestly, this thing bothered me even as a child. I'm still amazed to this day how my parents study stuff like this and still don't feel even a little bit dissonant. I mean, come on ! We are either truly free to do whatever we please and live our lives accordingly or we are not free at all and God is a big dictator. How stupid can j-dubs be sitting in the kingdom hell and listening to this crap without saying one thing against it ? I don't know how they do it; probably most aren't even paying attention.

  Just last week we we're studing somewhere (can't remember exactly where) how great and free life will be in the new world. Bahahhhahah, what a joke ! How wonderful that God or the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" (same thing for j-dubs), will manage to make you live an ethernity as a mental slave not being able to make your own choices. Exhilarating prospect ! I said it before and I have to say it again. It's disgusting and funny at the same time listening to them talking about how kind and great God is for creating us with free will. The only small thing is, we have to sacrifice our lives to him. What's the point of even mentioning free will then ? Cause it's clearly non-existing.
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  designs

  Kind of like wearing a Shock Collar.
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  Bungi Bill

  The only "freedom" JWs have is the freedom to do as they are told!

  Bill
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  prologos

  Any contract you sign, or your will, if done under duress or threat is invalid.
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  jwfacts

  Totally agree.
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  tootired2care

  How wonderful that God or the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" (same thing for j-dubs), will manage to make you live an ethernity as a mental slave not being able to make your own choices.

  I remember as child being very excited of the prospect of eternal life and having freedom and all the time in the world to pursue my interests. It was practically the main thought that kept me running that rat race and putting up with all that nonsense for so many years. When you really start thinking more deeply about it though, you know on those nights and weekends that you miss meetings, and service, and actually have time to think, you start to see that it just doesn't doesn't add up.

  If the theocratic world of the WT "way" is supposed to be a forgleam of things to come, it's a very dim future! Also, if it's all so wonderful, than how come so many angels chose to abandon heaven, and side with Satan? The bible is quite silent on this critical point. The problem is there is no true freedom in the bible gods plan, and there never was. As the great Christopher Hitchens said: "Emancipate yourself from the idea of a celestial dictatorship and you've taken the first step to becoming free." Great words to live by in my opinion.
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  yadda yadda 2

  We are either truly free to do whatever we please and live our lives accordingly or we are not free at all and God is a big dictator.

  Errr, it's an age-old philosophical question and objection you allude to but the above is sheer black and white thinking. You've presented a false dichotomy.

  Think about your normal, every-day life. Everyone has free will but there are CURBS on your free will. You must obey the road code, for example. You must not commit murder, rape, theft, for example. Otherwise you will be arrested and end up in prison.

  Does that make your government a 'big dictator'? Does that make your local police officer or Court judge a 'big dictator'?

  The issue is not really whether we have free will or not (a failed theodicy) but the question: why didn't God put restraints on the extent of suffering and death that evildoers could permit? He put a limit on Satan when he tested Job after all, ie, God told Satan he couldn't take Job's life, and he has curbed the ability of the other demons to cause damage on earth, and in Romans 13 God says he has set in place the higher authorities to act as a sword against evildoers, so why hasn't God put natural restraints on human evildoers as he has done with the rebellious angels?

  For example, if Adam and Eve's flawed DNA after they committed the original sin caused death, disease and suffering in the world, and if Jesus made a clear connection between sin and death, why hasn't Jehovah built something into our DNA so that the an evildoers body develops disease and breaks down in proportion to the level of evil and sin they committ?

  Why do innocent children get leukemia but a serial murderer live to a ripe old age if never caught?

  Just shows the contradictions run too deep and there cannot possibly be any personal, intervening God as the Bible describes this 'God' to be.
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  adamah

  Yeah, the JWs don't understand what the term they parrot actually means:

  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/free+will

  free will

  n. 1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will. 2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

  So when they often repeat the mindless meme, "God didn't want to make Adam and Eve as robots who HAD to follow his orders and love and obey Him" they fail to understand that the action which they carried out of eating the 'forbidden fruit' wasn't an exercise of their God-given "free will", but a violation of God's Divine Will (AKA a sin).

  Point being, in Xian theology, God's Will ALWAYS trumps man's exercise of his free will, so the only way God gives man "the gift of free will" is by NOT starting in with scrolls filled with a bunch of "Thou Shalt Not Do X's". It's not so much a question of having the capability for independent thought, but having the authority to decide.

  A Big Book of rules is the unmistakeable hall-mark of mortal men looking to control others, and not a "gift" from the Gods.
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  Badfish

  You have the free will to go out and commit a mass shooting tomorrow if you want, don't you? Or does the fact that if you do, you will most likely get life in prison if not the death penalty mean you don't have free will?
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  LostGeneration

  If you really want to blow a JWs mind, get into a discusion about free will in the new world, (after the 1000 years is over).

  Ask them what will happen when people sin (like Adam and Eve did) after a few million years. They will initially give you a "does not compute" look but if you have a bit of patience they don't like it at all. It basially means people are going to be executed in the new system if they violate the rules, just like Adam and Eve.

  And they know it will happen so it caused the hamster wheel to start spinning.