by Bobcat 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Yes, the "1914" thing was a turning point for the human history
Yet it has nothing to do with the spiritual things , or those strictly related with God's Kingdom - except with the fact that the coincidence of a wrong chronology with the break out of the WW1 has mislead God's people into interpreting in a wrong way the prophecies regarding the "latter days" and "the end time" !
wt.
and gretings Abe !
wantingtruth,
Yes, I know my convictions regarding 1914 trouble you, especially when we can agree on almost everything else.
I already know your thoughts on these 1914 matters. Your interpretations have not convinced me because I see no logical explanation or evidence.
The most significant thing we most definitely agree on is the Name of the Wild beast and the calculation of its number!
Thank you for helping me understand how to do the calculation.
Hope you have shared that in this forum.
I know that I have.
Greetings Rus.
abe
Abe:
Your quoting this verse above however, suggests that you think period "C" has already started as well:
(John 12:31, 32) . . . Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And yet I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw men of all sorts to me.
If you don't think the judging has already started then you need to consider how you are interpreting the word "now" in the scripture.
In connection with "now" in John 12:31 -
I was taking "now" (nun, Strong's #3568) as it is normally understood. AMG's Greek WordStudy Dictionary understands it in this verse (as also with Acts 13:11; Phil 1:20; John 16:5, 32; Acts 26:17) as meaning, "In reference to future time just at hand. . . As implying what is immediately to take place." (p. 1019) Similarly, BDAG (Bauer's 3rd Edition Lexicon) defines it as "a temporal marker with focus on the moment as such, now." [Bolding & italics theirs - Bobcat] And with regard to John 12:31 (and the other pasages referenced in AMG) as "of time shortly before or shortly after the immediate pres[ent]."
I guess on the surface, that understanding of "now" in John 12:31 might suggest that I thought the 'judging of the inhabited earth' from Acts 17:31 was then to take place also. But that is not how I understand it. I take 'the judging of the world and its ruler' of John 12:31, which in the context is closely related to Jesus' death (John 12:32), as a judgment that opens the way for salvation. The power of "the world" and "Satan" to hold people in sin is broken via Jesus' sacrificial death. Whereas, Jesus' 'judging of the inhabited earth in righteousness' in Acts 17:31 is a judging of individual humans (which in the context of Acts 17:30, 31 Paul links with the need for individual repentence).
On the other hand, in connection with Revelation 12:12 - This is an interesting thought (that the "because" in the verse might place the ouster of Satan before Jesus' attains to his "authority.") This possibility would work regardless of whether this took place in the 1st century (as I contend) or near 1914 (as you contend). But I don't know if the Revelation account (in chapter 12) intends that idea.
Verse 6 describes the 'woman's child' as being 'caught away to God's throne.' If that indicates when Jesus actually received his "authority," it would rule out the idea as the sequence, as portrayed in Revelation 12, places that before the 'war in heaven.' On the other hand, if gaining "authority" were to be quickly followed by the "war" which ousts Satan, then, it might be splitting hairs wondering which came first. They could possibly be seen as a close sequence that effectively allows them to be described together; the one following immediately after the other, allowing the ones saying "now" in verse 10 to be describing the whole sequence. The account itself doesn't seem to focus on that detail (IMO), but the "because" in verse 10 would, if taken literally, allow for the sequence you expressed about it.
Take Care, Abe
1914 was a "turning point" invented after the fact to explain why they were not raptured to heaven that year. One time out of curiosity when I was researching 1914 and I realized that thier cronology was 20 years off I looked up what happened in 1934. You can make just as good of a point for 1934 as 1914. For instance:
Not that I believe either date has any significance at all, it is just curious how you can make history fit your view if you want to. And Rutherford wanted to.
Nice coment Bobcat in response to abe, Abe hate to say it but your wrong, 1914 has no relevence and you should read 1corithinans chapter 15 more slowly, also Rev. 1:5. There is way more evidence for the Peterist view then there is for the JW's crap!!!
I'm not directly affected by anything that happend in 1914 at least not any more than I am by other events in history. Of course 1914 has some sort of effect on us today but no more than any other historical event. 9-11 was the turning point in history for me. Maybe in a few years that will be the new light and it will be that generation where millions now living will never die.
Indian Larry, this is an curious topic and a great theory!!
" Not that I believe either date has any significance at all, it is just curious how you can make history fit your view if you want to. And Rutherford wanted to."
The WTBTS could still drop 1914 and adopt 1934 as the year Jesus took the throne. They could easily say that starting in 1914, Jesus' heavenly inauguration began which culminated in his taking the throne in 1934. Hilter's claim to stamp out Christ's brothers would make "sense" then. Not only would it explain away the old "generation" teaching and buy time, but guess what?! Add 100 years to 1934 and you get 2034. 2034 is 120 years from Jesus' 1914 "inauguration" in heaven, which ties in nicely with the 120 years of Noah!
Most of the old timers will be dead soon, so they can't say, " Hey! WTH??" This 1934 teaching would be some great nu-light to release from the collective "Slave's" butt by 2020. Imagine how close the END will be??
DD
Bobcat,
My understanding of John 12:31 is that Jesus Christ is talking about an event that would occur shortly (his crucifiction and ressurection).
Prior to that event the possibility of judging the world and especially Satan did not exist in a righteous way.
That event would "now" make that possible.
Yes, thats a different kind of "now".
But hey, from looking at the rest of your post it looks like our personal convictions are very different.
I just wanted people on this forum to have an opportunity to see why 1914 is a valid "turning point in history" especially in regard to both Satan and Jesus Christ.
I invite them to watch the video through the link I posted above.
abe
wikipedia has a list of events that happened in 1914. I was surprised by how many important things happened that year in a variety of fields. Maybe it reads the same for every year, though.
The two major events in my life were the Beatles coming to America and Sept. 11th. I have a different mindset after 9/11. Everytime I take a train I am reminded of 9/11. My neighborhood was the staging area b/c it was the closest to the devestated area. I have no medical skills. My response was to live as normal a life as possible. I saw so many unbelievable things walking around the city. As horrific as it was, 9/11 was nothing compared to what many countries have faced.
I don't understand why the JWs are so UN oriented.
Abe:
I just wanted people on this forum to have an opportunity to see why 1914 is a valid "turning point in history" especially in regard to both Satan and Jesus Christ.
And you arrived at your view through your own research, despite the WT efforts to thwart such research. I applaud you. And thank you for making your view available to consider.
Take Care
