How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening.

by BU2B 142 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  humbled

  suavojr, Good observations from a 10 year old--Children can be so clear-thinking..

  And the Genesis 22 account? While I was struggling with the problem of the god of love in the OT, I knew that words were important. And that the words of Genesis 22 were peculiar.

  I had as my personal background 1) a Latin teacher in high school that made us discover words derived from latin. This made me mindful of clues and odd turns in language, communication and the evolution of word meaning. 2)because I ended up living in a less "civilized" manner and sometimes living and worshipping with people who had ideas of God as rough as Abraham, I had to wonder how ideas of God grew among people--I asked the brothers during my inquisition 'Who invents words, brothers?" "We humans do". "So how does God talk to us about ways that are higher than our ways?" Also: "Do you know how God "spoke" to Abraham?"

  I will not defend the existence of god, but it is true that the scholarship allowing for a variance on the horrific Abraham/Isaac account is sound.

  What I sent to the Society was reasoned and researched. (I have the full exchange of letters on an old thread on JWN). Though they found nothing objectionable in it, even concurred with the points. But ultimately, though there was every good reason not to interpret God as a freaky sadist, they would not allow for anything less than a twisted God. I pointed out that there was more reason to embrace ambiguity than the certainty they had chosen.

  And to the charge from the local brothers that I had my own interpretation I pointed out that, no, their insistence on ignoring a word in all ways foreign to blood and blade--THAT was an interpretation. "Do not go beyond the things written" only applied to the WTBTS writings--not the bible. They were comfortable with their hideous interpretation for children.

  It took 3 months for the Corporation to deal with me. I was to be quiet and lump it.

  They LOVE the monster they've created.
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  kaik

  I never understand the 10th plague on Egypt. Why the first born were to suffer to prove what?
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  Apognophos

  I guess this says something about my opinion of animals vs. people, but the first time I started thinking that maybe God had done something unethical in the OT was when I realized that he killed all the animals on Earth in the Flood, save for the few in the Ark. What did they do wrong?
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  designs

  'Jehovah is a giver of life and a killer'
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  RottenRiley

  Why does God not have the right to delete his creation if he desires? If he created life, who are we to tell him he is wrong to eliminate what he no longer considered beneficial for his creation?

  I am a Agronomist, in agriculture production, we eliminated cultivars and varieties that did not produce good fruit, had poor rootstock qualites that got infected by nematodes, Santa Rosa Borers, no draught resistant. Do we Farmers have the right to kill off fruit and veggie varities that did not produce to our specifications?

  We elimanted many varites Bananas at La Lima, Honduras as we search for a new replacement for "Gros Michel", the banana we all loved to eat (1976 was the last time you saw a real banana, now it's the Cavendish) before most of it's varites were destroyed by Panana Disease and Black Sigatoka. We play god in Agri-Science, why does God not have the right to eliminate species he finds not beneficial? Were we wrong to get rid of poor plant species that were weaklings?

  I have interest in various facilities, I have grown wine grapes, grafted every fruit tree you can imagine, grown the most diffucult plants and trees, grew from cuttings Oak Trees, we have a right to eliminate poor cultivars that do not improve the plant's chance at survival during harsh times. When my cousin who works for Monsanto discovered the weeds growing in Round-UP, instead of killing these weeds they took the genes and added them to the Round-UP Corn. It's actually ingenious how the genetics experts work with plants and RNAi tampering.

  Marina Genetics (My buddy works there) has a patent, they created a translucent Rose, if this company on the edge of financial ruin can apply their modifications to human beings, what if we can shut off certain receptors for Cancer? It's the whole paradigm Marina is going after, all from playing with the RNAi of a Rose. Those Dutch Botanist create and delete many species of plants, so I think Jehovah can delete what he pleases if I feel I can eliminate Banana Cultivars or decide I don't want a Yuzu-Genoa hybrid.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Interesting background, RR.

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  I guess the difference is, no Agronomists, you included, I know of have claimed to be the creator of the "perfect" banana, created in your image no less, all of it is "good". Soon, that "perfect" banana is revealed as flawed beyond repair, you declare that same banana rotten from its youth up, inherently wicked, not worth the peeling that contains it, deserving of destruction. Keep in mind YOU created the banana, and YOU declared it perfect...because it reflects who YOU are as Agronomist Almighty. By condemning the banana you are, in reality, condemning yourself, the creator- but act as if you had nothing to do with it.

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  this is why Bible accounts and god's actions make little sense....
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  designs

  The "Just War" theory, jus bellum iustum. Militarists to theologians have bought into this doctrine. If its ok for God to do it we can do it.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  The other contradiction of the religious is this: with the same innate/learned set of moral values they use to determine that god did something "good", the religious person will then declare that same moral compass so flawed it cannot judge as "bad" an act of god that is undeniably offensive and evil.

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  "who are we to question god's decision to (commit genocide; kill children; strike someone with leprosy, etc.)?"

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  So, if the moral compass is too flawed to question any of god's actions as bad, how is it qualified to then judge any of god's actions as good?
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  bohm

  RottenRiley: Why does God not have the right to delete his creation if he desires? If he created life, who are we to tell him he is wrong to eliminate what he no longer considered beneficial for his creation?

  Ok. So when science progress to the point where we are able to sequence human DNA from bare amino acids and create a live human child from scratch, it would supposedly be morally okay for the doctors to kill that child at any point. They made him, they can kill him. Who are we to object?

  Wait a second, I think I just described the logic of the weird and amoral scientist from a shitty B-movie.

  I have interest in various facilities, I have grown wine grapes, grafted every fruit tree you can imagine, grown the most diffucult plants and trees, grew from cuttings Oak Trees, we have a right to eliminate poor cultivars that do not improve the plant's chance at survival during harsh times.

  In other words, you get your moral intuitions by imagining people are plants and think about what you may do with plants. Classic.
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  BU2B

  JWs and Christian apologists in general come up with the most twisted defenses of YHWH possible. Again I ask, why should God be held to a lower standard than us humans? Also if God is so good and all his ways are righteousness, why dont we praise Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Jong il and Jong un? They are more closely in line with YHWH than most, and just like YHWH, they do what they do for power, control, and for the good of their most devoted cult followers. Everyone else is expendable.. Think caananites genocide, killing the firstborn etc. Why do christians condemn hitler for exterminating the Jews but praise the Jews for extermintating the native peoples and domestic animals of the "promied land" Just like YHWH, Hitler was doing that unpleasnt task for the greater good of his people right? The Jews basically said the native people were sub-human, sadistic, perverted and deserved death, even the children lest they grow into monsters! I have heard the illustration, "If you are destroying a snake nest, do you let the baby snakes go? They will just grow into big snakes one day" These are the type of things "loving" christians say.

  Why should people like Kim Jond un get in trouble when he is cearly made in "Gods image" and is similiar to tyrants loved by god like Moses, Infanticidal Joshua, David, Jehu, and Phineas. He throws his enemies to the dogs you say? Well what about Jezebel? Didnt YHWH approve of her being torn aprt by dogs as well? I doubt even North Korea would throw young children into a cage full of starving bears for making fun that someone is losing hair.... Tyrant YHWH did that too.

  And to think.. JWs are now studying the "Draw close to Jehovah" book! How can I draw close to him any more than I can draw close to a serial killer.. that is what he is.

  It is not good enough for YHWH if you worship him for the wrong reasons, you must love him from the heart.. This was impossible for me and it woke me up slowly but surely.