How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening. (page 14)

Phizzy

" The ten commandments were certainly not unique." Too true , and even the expanded Law is not so good as its predecessors ! (Note the "Mosaic" Law is the newest of those mentioned !)

"

from Wiki

"The Code of Hammurabi was one of several sets of laws in the ancient Near East. [8] The code of laws was arranged in orderly groups, so that everyone who read the laws would know what was required of them. [9] Earlier collections of laws include the Code of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (ca. 2050 BC), the Laws of Eshnunna (ca. 1930 BC) and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (ca. 1870 BC), while later ones include the Hittite laws, the Assyrian laws, and Mosaic Law. [10] These codes come from similar cultures in a relatively small geographical area, and they have passages which resemble each other. [11] "

I have been reading a lot recently about the origins and evolution of the God Yahweh, it is eye opening to see that what I was told many years ago by a guy I called on in the DtoD work, that "Your god is just the desert god of the early tribes of Canaan" was perfectly true ! If only I had researched more then !

Mind you, I think that guy worshipped the "Christian" god, who dat den ?

nonjwspouse

DCMS yes, those commandments are not unique to Jewish/Christianity at all.

If all worshiped one God, then where is the instigator for wars? The differing practice of worshiping is not addressed as wrong in the Bible. To worship an image sets up the divisions, as the images would be different. There is no image of God the Father, as He has not been seen. The reminders in some Churches, though different, are not worshipped, those images of Jesus, Saints etc., are used to remind while worshipping God, used too initiate memory. The worth of the imagis is nothing except to the person who understands what the image represents.

I realize there are some religions that use images and treat those images physically as God, as idols.

The ten commandments were not all encompassing, hence the need for Jesus to come to earth to clarify and add to this moral code.

I have tobuy tickets onliine formy daughter in a matter of minutes, so I'll get back to thislater...

Heaven

... And now over to our Bible correspondent Moses John:

Exodus 15:3:

"The Lord is a man of war; Yahweh is his name." – Holman Standard Christian Bible, New Living Translation, Expanded Bible,
"Jehovah is a man of war: Jehovah is his name." American Standard Version
"The Lord is a man of war, his Name is Jehovah." - 1599 Geneva Bible
"The Lord is a warrior—Yes, Jehovah is his name." - The Living Bible
"Yahweh is a warrior! Yahweh is his name." - Names of God Bible
"Yahweh is a man of war. Yahweh is his name." - World English Bible

"I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation" – Exodus 20.5

Any words to add Isaiah?

"I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things." – Isaiah 45.7. (KJV)

BU2B

WOW heaven! I have never seen the IS 45:7 verse.. I wonder why lol. I wonder how Jokehovahs witlesses explain that one away..

Shanagirl

paul from cleveland Shana, everything you're writing in this thread is very interesting. Where are you reading about this? Can you recommend some books or websites that discuss this topic in more detail?

I started reading "Jehovah Unmasked" which got me interested in the NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY on Gnostic early writings which included the Apocryphal Books. I've always been naturally interested in ancient history, so I found them fascinating to read. What I initially found frustrating was the Gnostic language and terms I did not understand, at first, so looked up a lot of words in the online dictionary. I'll try to include this info for you.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlalpha.htmlFirst, if you go to this website it will offer all the ancient books that were discovered.

I personally found The Apocryphon of John Davies translation very interesting. In this book Jesus is explaining the Heavenly realms to John son of Zebedee. If you read some of these books you'll notice that some have a lot of esoteric and mythical themes in them, while others, for instance The Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Philip, Apocryphon of James,. While others such as On the Origin of the World* and The Hypostasis of the Archons are very esoteric and mythical, as in the Genesis story in the Bible. There is a whole list of other books you can read as well. Once you start reading these books you'll probably need something to help you understand a lot of the writings. Here is an excellent website that explains it easily. http://www.kheper.net/topics/Gnosticism/first_emanation.html This website includes a Glossary that explains the terms and definitions you see in the Nag Hammadi Books. http://www.kheper.net/topics/Gnosticism/glossary.html

Shana

rocketman

There's a basic pattern to most of God's judgments in the OT - warning, time allowed for repentance, then all hell breaks loose. In some cases, the time allowed was hundreds of years, such as for the Israelites and even the Amorites, whose error was allowed to 'come to completion'.

There are some cases that seem to be exceptions, such as the stoning of Achan and the guy who picked up stuff on the Sabbath. Then there was the poor guy who tried to steady the Ark of The Covenant. In these instances, judgment was swift. There were warnings given, though not directly to the individuals involved. All should have known better, but none received a reprieve.

Interestingly in Job, he took it on the chin quite hard and never received an explanation as to why. God simply questioned him with 'where were you when I...?' and then restored him. But nothing was ever really explained.

Perhaps God feels that he owes no explanation. If he didn't explain it to a man who lost everything, he's not obliged, apparently, to explain it to us.

NotNew

So to conclude I would say the OT cannot be trusted to formulate a personality for God. It was written by men to control women and the vulnerable, I don't believe at all it's from God the creator.

Kate xx

REALLY! that's what your brain processed and came to a conclusion? So I assume the vulnerable include or are the POS-men?

SW

DJS

KateWild,

You have suggested the bible was written to control women and the vulnerable on several occasions. I agree to some degree. Many of the laws and rules of all societies evolved, early in man's existence, out of necessisity - to reign in or control behaviors that caused problems within the cave, clan and tribe. Remember, there weren't social programs or economic opportunities. So you have to cut all of the early rules makers a bit of slack, including the bible writers, who may have been well intentioned or were trying to build a social order and a civilization. To some degree they certainly succeeded.

I learned a long time ago, in management, that my direct reports would often tell their peers or their subordinates to do certain things and then try to support it or add credence to it by stating that I had given them the authority or it was from my direction, even though a lot of times it wasn't. It is human nature to act like a higher authority is backing our rule, guidance, etc. That explains the bible and a belief in god more than simply stating it came into existence just to control women and the weak.

So you want pink border around your official atheist certificate.....

cofty

Perhaps God feels that he owes no explanation - Rocketman

That's just something theists say when they have no answers for why their god is such a dick head.

paul from cleveland

Thank you Shana!

How do JWs Not see how barbaric YHWH is? Its what started my awakening.

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