the star of bethleham comong from satan

by nonjwspouse 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    For some reason my husband has picked this topic after months of non communication of anything related biblical at all. ( he believes he came up with the idea onhis own ( he was raised JW and left as a 18 year old...ugh...right)

    SO since this was his topic my own thoughts have been expressed as well. However I wanrt to know the thoughts of those iin here who have contemplated this issue.

    Do you believe the start was placed by satan to try to kill jesus? Please elaborate on your reasonings.

    • Since God immediatly announced the birth to the shepards in the field, were they told to spread this good news? Would this good news then get to Herod at some point in the near future? Did god tell those shepards to spread this good news of the birth of the messiah, or to keep it secret?
    • If this good news of the shepards eventually, and unquestioninly, got to herod sooner or later, was there not a phrophecy that the child would be born in bethleham, and king herod would kill all the children of age in order to kill jesus? regardless of the magi's timing, or a later awareness of his whereaboouts?
    • Since this prophecy was from God, how did God, according tothe Bible make sure the very poor Holy family would have the funding and ability suddenly leave and escape the killings?
    • Isn't it true that all magi = wise men in davids kingdom were under the rule of King David? Would those under his rule remain pagan? ( Isn't it correct it is not astronomers that are considered pagan, only astrologers with claims of predictions and preminitions)
    • if it were Satan sending the magi, then why were they bringing him birthday gifts of great worth,not to be found in the west, to safely fund thier long, sudden journy to egypt?
    • If satan sent the magi why did the magi obey god not to return?
    • If satan sent the magi , which helped the holy family escape near death, then why did satan allow herod to believe jesus was dead?
    • The holy family returned safely to their home after herod's death.Herod died believing Jesus was killed. Jesus was safe there after the horrific herod killings. Is this the plan of SATAN or GOD?

    Any correctios or additions to my viewpoint? Please, I welcome all rational disucussion.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Here is what I discovered without wearing WT-goggles.. Just my 2 cents.

    The Star .

    I literally did a verse by verse breakdown of Matthew and Luke’s accounts. I used the NWT and the Emphatic Diaglott. What is interesting to me is that if you go on-line and use the " Good Land " brochure maps, you can calculate the distances from the cities mentioned. Also, this is one of those accounts where you have to read both Matthew and Luke to get the entire story straight.

    Joseph, Mary and Jesus did not flee to Egypt until " after " the Magians visited and presented the gifts. ( Matthew 2:11-15 ) Then in Luke we get more info for establishing a timeline of the events. Jesus is born in Bethlehem, 8 days later he is circumcised. Then sometime after 40 days from the birth of jesus, Mary, by law, has to go to the Temple to have sacrifices made and do the purification procedures, by law.

    This is important because they are still poor at this point, only being able to offer up 2 pigeons or turtledoves. So the actual written evidence we have would seems to indicate that they had not been given any of the " gifts " yet. We cannot imagine two people as faithful as Joseph and Mary, offering a skimpy sacrifice to save money when they have been chosen to raise Gods son. Next, after everything was taken care of " according to the law " they went back to their hometown of Nazareth. Luke 2:39

    If we look at both accounts, and add up the amount of time it would take from Jesus birth to arriving in Nazareth at a "house", there is no reason to believe that Jesus was 2 or 3 years old before the Astrologers, Astronomers, Wise-men, Magians, presented the gifts. Joseph, Mary and Jesus could have taken it easy at an Inn or at someone’s house for a Month or two and then went to Nazareth, we just dont know. Whatever the case the Magians could have been led to the " house " and presented the gifts before Jesus even reached the age of 1 year. Especially when we know that the family did not go to Egypt until after they received the gifts, and they remained there until after Herod died. I don’t think they waited around a couple of years and then fled to Egypt.

    Things did not happen instantly like they do today either. So after Herod met with the Magians the second time, secretly, and told them to find the child, some time had to pass. Also, Herod was the one doing all the deceiving at this point. So if the Magians were not far from Nazareth, they were in Jerusalem about 68 miles away, they could have found Jesus anytime after the Families trip to Jerusalem. They could have found Jesus in Nazareth in under 2 months including travel time for everyone involved. That would make sense because Jesus is described in both accounts as an " infant " in Greek. Even when some translations say " child ", the Greek word is the same, and it is infant.

    So from what I have found, there is no reason to teach definitively that the Magians were led by Satan or were working for Herod. We know Herod was wicked and tried to cover the bases by having all children 2 and under killed. We also know that the Magians did exactly what they claimed to have come for, to honor Jesus. Here is what I have found, sorry to be so long-winded about it.

    The Bible does not say:

    1. Jesus was 2 years or older when the Magians found him.
    2. The Magians were working with Herod.
    3. Jesus was not an infant when found.
    4. The " star " was from Satan.

    The Bible does say:

    1. Jesus was born in Bethlehem
    2. Herod wanted to kill Jesus, and lied to the Magians.
    3. The Magians kept thier word about honoring Jesus
    4. The Magians followed Gods direction and did not follow Herod's.
    5. The Magians were led to Jerusalem and to a house,( probably Nazareth) by a " star ".
    6. Joseph followed Gods direction and fled to Egypt after the Magians visited and offered their gifts to Jesus.

    So Joseph and Mary lived in Nazareth, traveled to Bethlehem where Jesus was born, then went to the temple, then back to Nazareth, then fled to Egypt, then came back to Nazareth! That’s a crazy trip, but it was necessary. So do you think I am missing anything, or adding anything that should not be there? It seems dogmatic to say we have proof that Satan led the Astrologers, and then to print it as truth. Add to it the fact that " apostasy " is now defined as " Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses ", according to the Elders book. I think the whole story of how awesome Jesus birth was has been downgraded. It is okay to realize the importance of this event, and it is irresponsible and dishonest to teach anything that Gods word does not teach.

    I wrote this a couple of years ago. Any thoughts or comments from faders or apologists?

    DD

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I think he did come up with this on his own. Which means he is thinking. Independently. Which is good.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    NonJWSpouse:

    I posted some research material from a commentary here (several posts, this one and 2 or 3 more that follow in the thread). I used to follow the WT line (that Satan was the author of the "star") until I found this material. It convinced me otherwise. The commentary is quite well reasearched. I hope it can add to what you know. DATA's post above can also be found on this thread. It is a good one to bookmark for this subject.

    Take Care

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    Thankyou all so much!

    Jgnat, his "independant thinking"a actually came from years of being taught this satan/star story. He has convinced himself that he thought it upall on his own and the WT supports his beliefs. ugh. I have been gatheriing, for when the time is ever right ,WT literature that exactly states "his own" satan/star story. he has repressed an awful lot I am discovering.

    Thanks DD! I agree.

    Bobcat I will check your link as well.

    The Satan Star thing is completely baseless in my opinion. I did not hear one single defense from my husband that negated one thing I brought up. Then he want into cult mode of " you believe one way, I believe another ok?" I stressed over and over I want to understand. The questions are to try to understand how I am wrong.

    I wanted intelligent discussion and backing up of points. He couldn't so he falls back on the universal "Just because".

    So any more opinions on this thread, PLEASE voice them!

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    I feel your pain. I would love to have one intelligent, adult, logical conversation with my spouse. Sadly, the cult-mind takes over.

    DD

  • Bella15
    Bella15

    Have you visited this site?

    http://www.bethlehemstar.net

    Go to the "THE STUDY" tab and read their material.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    This is a topic I was planning to research more one day.

    My thoughts as of now for some possibilities are this.....

    The scriptures say the sun/moon/stars were also made for signs and marking 'times'. In the OT, there are numerous prophecies with specific times, 70 weeks, 1280 days, time times and half a time... Jesus talked about the time of the gentiles, etc.

    Is it known where exactly the magi came from? What country? What religion? Israel in Jesus time was from the tribe of Judah I believe....but there were 12 tribes and many had been scattered and many of the teachings could have been scattered as well.

    So there may have been a prophecy for the messiah to be born, and the star meant the astrologists saw the time had come. Possibly the location was previously revealed or perhaps something in that prophecy if it existed required the stars to be in a certain alignment marking the time and to be observed from a certain focal point at a certain time which may have mapped and guided to them where to go.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    The whole thing is an allegory. The Three Kings are actually the three stars in the Belt of Orion. These point toward where the sun is going to rise on Christmas morning--the Star of Bethlehem is really Sirius. And that thing "dying on the cross" is really the sun, "dying" on the Cross of the Zodiac. It remains there three days between December 22 through 24, and then starts rising from that cross on December 25. The sun represents salvation from the long cold nights, and represents life-giving energy that is soon to make growing food possible once again.

    Does anyone think of giving the sun credit?

  • tenyearsafter

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