Did Jesus say his followers would be witnesses of Jehovah?

by blondie 53 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  designs

  Phizzy- yes the Eastern Churches split from the Western Church over the "proceed" point, who proceeds from the Father.

  smiddy- enough reseach has been conducted on the Christian Greek Scrptures for anyone to conclude they were the product of heavy editing and biases. This was a new religion, actually several competeing christian ideologies, and as should be expected to the victor goes the spoils- people with differeing views didn't last to long.

  Rotten- try a little experiment, go into a church, any church, and start using the name Jehovah frequently and see what reactions you get. Let us know the results.
• 

  RottenRiley

  Sarah, I never got a decent answer to what kind of worship or bowing down to Jesus Christ we were suppose to peform to our Lord!

  St. Paul had no problems using the name of Jesus Christ with great fruency, I started to notice a few years ago that the terms "Faithful Slave", "annointed", "Elders" were used with greater frequency than the name YHWH lifted above all other names in Heaven. Why are JWs so ashamed or fearful to use the name of Jesus Christ, I think the book "The Greatest Man" to deflect from the fact the Watchtower Organization uses their terms more than they use the name of Jesus Christ!

  How many times did Paul use the name of Jesus in chapter 3? Witnesses have their own theocratic language, so when the name of Jesus Christ is used, their fine tuned ears are quick to notice a name that's infrequently used. That's why they get nervous, they are trained from infancy to use Jesus Christ's name in a limited way, we have our own personal experiene and I can tell you people have been in the Elders Room for using the name of Jesus Christ and saying "It's ok to pray to Jesus like Stephen did in Acts 7?", we had a brother get slammed for saying it was ok to pray to Jesus Christ when he cited the example of Stephen. The elders said that Stephen was not thinking right when he prayed directly to Jesus. Go Figure that one out!

  "

  Philippians 3

  Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

  Knowing Christ

  3 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord. To write to you again about this is no trouble for me and is a protection for you.

  2 Watch out for “dogs,” [ a ] watch out for evil workers, watch out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, the ones who serve by the Spirit of God, boast in Christ Jesus, and do not put confidence in the flesh— 4 although I once also had confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised the eighth day; of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; regarding the law, a Pharisee; 6 regarding zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness that is in the law, blameless.

  7 But everything that was a gain to me, I have considered to be a loss because of Christ. 8 More than that, I also consider everything to be a loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Because of Him I have suffered the loss of all things and consider them filth, so that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own from the law, but one that is through faith in Christ [ b ] —the righteousness from God based on faith. 10 My goal is to know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 assuming that I will somehow reach the resurrection from among the dead.

  Reaching Forward to God’s Goal

  12 Not that I have already reached the goal or am already fully mature, but I make every effort to take hold of it because I also have been taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not [ c ] consider myself to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and reaching forward to what is ahead, 14 I pursue as my goal the prize promised by God’s heavenly [ d ] call in Christ Jesus. 15 Therefore, all who are mature should think this way. And if you think differently about anything, God will reveal this also to you. 16 In any case, we should live up to whatever truth we have attained. 17 Join in imitating me, brothers, and observe those who live according to the example you have in us. 18 For I have often told you, and now say again with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction; their god is their stomach; their glory is in their shame. They are focused on earthly things, 20 but our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. 21 He will transform the body of our humble condition into the likeness of His glorious body, by the power that enables Him to subject everything to Himself.

  Footnotes:
• 

  JW GoneBad

  Designs: ‘Gone Bad- So what do you have to say about Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians....throw in a Baptist or two if you like :D ’

  I’m saying that JWs fail to give Jesus equal time.

  John 17:3 does not read: ‘This means everlasting life, their coming to know you the only true God’...and end there. Jehovah’s Witnesses would have you believe it ends there and that our life depends 100% on taking in knowledge and getting to know Jehovah…only!

  The scripture reads and these are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ himself: ‘This means everlasting life, their coming to know you the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ’.

  In other words our everlasting life depends on taking in knowledge and getting to know both God and Jesus Christ…..split 50/50!

  Everybody damn well knows that in WT world Jesus Christ is being cheated out of his equal time!

  That’s what I’m saying and that’s what I think this thread is all about…..In WT world Jesus Christ is being cheated out of his due reward and recognition and he is pissed at the GB of the WTBTS!

  Jesus Christ may be pissed at the Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians and Baptists for something entirely different.
• 

  designs

  Jesus is pissed as in there is an actual Jesus to get pissed. That can't be proved, but that is a different topic.

  Your summation of a JWs view of John 17:3 is incorrect. They decidedly don't put the emphasis on Jesus as most Churches do but to say it is only Jehovah is incorrect. Jesus is cheated out of equal time because they believe in a two tier reward system, one for what they call the Anointed and a future time for their idea of who the Other Sheep are.
• 

  JW GoneBad

  designs: 'Jesus is cheated out of equal time because they believe in a two tier reward system, one for what they call the Anointed......'

  Ah, yes the Anointed. I did leave them out of the equation didn't I. What you say has merit, given the fact the the GB anointed have of recent been basking more and more in the limelight in WT world to the exclusion of the one their indebted to .....the Son.
• 

  sarahsmile

  The Anointed referred to The Messiah. The Messiah was Jesus Christ.

  Yet the GB are referred to as the Anointed!

  Something is not right!

  RottenRiley I hear you!

  Smitty I agree with you there!

  I just think that the apostles probably went door to door preaching about Jesus Christ as the Messiah the expected Anointed. Pauls statements are about Jesus birth,life,resurrection,ascension. He preached Jesus. But who knows about Paul.

  I just think Jesus life and sacrifice changed the discussion from God YHWH to God Jesus Christ. If Jehovahs Witnesses were pre Jesus they might be Iseralites under old sacrfices and talking about YHWH. But they are after Jesus so the focus should be on Jesus rulership. JW taught us a different Jesus or is that Michael. That is why they do not bow down or pray to Jesus because they think he is now Michael.
• 

  jgnat

  sarahsmile, small point of distinction. I think the apostles and early Christians went from house to house, rather than door to door. Individual conversion is a modern convention.

  • Back then, households were a unit. Wherever the leader went, so did the household. We still see this structure in India, Cyprus, the Middle East. Cornelius got baptized and so followed his entire household.
  • Jesus and Paul were invited to eat and speak in people's homes, likely someone wealthy who could afford a second story home. There were few meeting spaces other than the public square so these households were opened up to hear these new teachings.

  Door to door cold sales as we saw through the twentieth century (fuller brush, encyclopedia, vaccum, etc.)? Inconcievable.
• 

  designs

  jgnat- Regarding your door to door comment (fuller brush man style) it seems a human tendency to rewrite history from the contemporary point of view. As JWs we were taught that the first christians went door to door like we were doing, not the other way around. It is either a blind spot or a writer with little sense of history. I suspect the same has happened to Jesus image. a 3rd century Bishop rewrites the Jesus character from that vantage etc.. Sort of like the writer of Daniel adding instruments that he knew but were not part of the story centuries earlier, or the domestic camels in Genesis which wouldn't have been in the original story.

  Part of the Bible Students and later JWs version of Jesus would be a branch of the anti-Church of Rome rebellion. Then history gets rewritten from that perspective.
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  It is impossible that Jesus used the name "Jehovah" or directed his followers to witness for him- for this one simple, irrefutable fact:

  .

  *** w80 2/1 p. 11 The Divine Name in Later Times ***

  THE NAME "JEHOVAH" BECOMES WIDELY KNOWN

  "Interestingly, Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, first rendered the divine name as "Jehova." This form appeared in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E. — over 700 years ago."

  .

  "Jehovah" is a fictitious, grammatically impossible name for YHWH invented more than 1,200 years after Jesus died. Jesus did not, nor could have, known or used that name, so logically, did not order his followers to promote it either.
• 

  designs

  Likewise "Jesus" would not have known the name "Jesus". I always get a kick out of Televangelists who say we must call on the name of Geeezus.