Why I'm Still Angry & Benefit from Simon's ...

by patio34 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  patio34

  Hi Hilda,

  Thanks for the reply. I would agree that Jesus did not follow this principle. But the point the author was making was that humans, throughout their history, have displayed this trait.

  But even in the Bible, before Christ, the Israelites displayed this, it seems to me. They were conquerors of a vast, fertile land, whereas before that they were nomads. They must have been honoring their sense of self-worth, that they were entitled to a land "of milk and honey." They then had to fight repeatedly to ensure their existence.

  True, they claimed their God had ordered them to this path. However, don't most peoples claim that? If you take the supernatural out of the picture, then thymos is what seems to be the principle.

  If you insist on the supernatural, then it seems all discussion is pointless, because anything can be claimed about anything. And all evidence to the contrary is "wisdom of man."

  Jesus lived in different times and was not leading a nation, as was Moses, et al. So it's not comparable.

  However, my point was also that the average individual had a sense of self-worth and responds with anger. But not everyone has it. Many people are downtrodden and do nothing about it. They accept the status quo. It's your assertion that Jesus was noble and that is not a given accepted by all people.

  Pat
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  HildaBingen

  Hello Pat:

  :Thanks for the reply. I would agree that Jesus did not follow this principle. But the point the author was making was that humans, throughout their history, have displayed this trait.:

  I think the author is right if we are talking about humans (excepting Jesus) throughout history. Humans tend to display this trait. My proposal, however, is that nobility and anger over one's supposed hurt self-esteem are not necessary correlates.

  :True, they claimed their God had ordered them to this path. However, don't most peoples claim that? If you take the supernatural out of the picture, then thymos is what seems to be the principle.:

  What you call thymos is the normal existential principle of everydayness. Jesus was not into everydayness though; he was into holiness and lovingness and non-everydayness.

  :If you insist on the supernatural, then it seems all discussion is pointless, because anything can be claimed about anything. And all evidence to the contrary is "wisdom of man.":

  I do not agree with your assessment of the supernatural. There are controls in theology that prevent one from claiming whatever she pleases. Theologians, even those who believe in the supernatural, do believe that not just anything goes. Some theologians feel that the idea that is the least antinomous wins. This ol' gal thinks that idea is pregnant with possibilities.

  :Jesus lived in different times and was not leading a nation, as was Moses, et al. So it's not comparable.:

  Jesus leads the church. That is comparable, my friend.

  :However, my point was also that the average individual had a sense of self-worth and responds with anger. But not everyone has it. Many people are downtrodden and do nothing about it. They accept the status quo. It's your assertion that Jesus was noble and that is not a given accepted by all people.:

  Is there such a thing as an 'average individual'? If there is, then you are right. If there is not--maybe you are not right. I don't know.

  One thing that I do know, dear. Even those who are not Christians have generally said that Jesus is noble. I judge by his actions and nothing else. I am not just asserting that Jesus is or was noble.
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  patio34

  Hi Individual's Wife,
  I agree with your assessment of the JWs trying to "win" back someone for God. It's the 'theocratic warfare' wherein they can be deceitful and sneaky. They can find justification for so many patently wrong things, it seems to me.

  Pat
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  patio34

  Hi Hilda,

  Another aspect of Jesus that we have not considered is his post-human existence wherein he exacts retribution and will kill about 99% of humans. That is certainly an aggressiveness that was not seen in his human manifestation. Of course, that's out of the realm of humans and not really germane to this topic. Just a thought.

  Pat