Thanks DoT.
Please come back and tell us how you're getting on. Remember - many of us have been in the same place as you.
All the best with research.
Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"
by DATA-DOG 387 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
heavensgate11
DOT
I wasn’t your teacher, to teach you the obvious, like the JWN Community does. I do not mix facts with fiction. Just as my comments have being misunderstood by the misguided, so to will your eyes be opened as EVE.
To learn is to understand the context and reasoning. Your blatant disregard for quest of knowledge is there for superficial. Welcome to the realm of hypocrisy and service to another cult. My insults have been none. The aggressors here have been the JWN Community.
Why don't people understand? It is not because the Bible is so unclear. Jesus expected people to understand His teaching, and Paul said: "...do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is" (Ephesians 5:17; see also 2 Timothy 3:16,17).
But often people do not understand the Bible simply because they do not like what it says. "Their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their heart and turn, so that I should heal them" (Matthew 13:15). When the Bible does not say what some folks want to hear, they just conclude it is all too confusing and you cannot really understand it anyway!
People who want to please God must "search the Scriptures daily" with an open mind, like the honest Bereans in Acts 17:11.
To please God, we must know the truth, and that truth is found in God's word.
-
defender of truth
Heavensgate: I know you're not my teacher, what has that got to do with it? If I start asking questions at my Hall, about the overlapping generation not having Scriptural precedent or why does the 69 awake teach an interpretation as fact?..I could draw suspicion.
I understood your explanation of even angels worshipping Jesus, I have been listening to you, but you seem to have difficulty giving direct and understandable answers.. You still have avoided answering the two main issues I am having trouble with, and you haven't explained the sentence about 'in time and context Jesus being superior to the Father' from pages ago.
People here, even if some are a bit strange, at least have replied to what I have said. All you do is condescend me and say things like..
""Your blatant disregard for quest of knowledge is there for superficial....My insults have been none.""
..Charming, I get shown all these quotes that I can't believe we printed, you ignore them and don't explain clearly what you are even saying, then you insult me again by saying I am being superficial!
I tell you what mate, it would take an expert in hieroglyphics to decipher what you are saying sometimes.
To say that anyone who doesn't understand your post is blind is incredibly arrogant, and not very Christian. I am trying. Finally..
Heavensgate:"Why don't people understand?....Jesus expected people to understand His teaching."
.. Because Jesus was a great teacher, and he used clear and simple illustrations. Your posts would confuse a growing tree. Good day. -
galaxie
Heavens, You are quoting scripture to support your OWN premise.
You are following the example of the G.B.
DOt seems to be starting to discern things for himself.
THAT IS ENCOURAGED on this forum, unlike your man made organisation.
-
defender of truth
Heavensgate, please look at this as an example of simplicity:
Matthew 6:26 Observe intently the birds of heaven; they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth more than they are? -
DuvanMuvan
@heavens gateTo be fair if the Jwn community is a cult, I'd much rather be in this than be a jw. Mainly because of jwn they don't pull doctrine out of thin air, say it's from the bible, then shun anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Usually when I do see other jws on here they at least try to engage in a straight forward debate. But you just seem to ignore everything they say and then turn around and call eveyone on here "hard of hearing".
If you aren't prepared to discuss your beliefs like a sane person why are you even a member?
People who want to please God must "search the Scriptures daily" with an open mind,
But I guess being so "open-minded" stops once you start reading things without the gb seal of approval.
One of the criteria of truth was that truth cannot contradict other truth. So if god's word (as "interpreted" by the fds) is so true, you have nothing to lose by reading "apostate" things with an open mind.
But then again you just seem like you're trolling. Anyone else agree?
damn that was my last post. ok dot I see your point and I take back what I said about the doctrine being stupid. But I still want to know why heavensgate just doesn't want to make his point clear and respond to any questions.
-
Vanderhoven7
Is there any way to get a copy of the document quoted in the OP.... that is WT 1986 4/1 Questions from Readers.
-
defender of truth
No, I don't agree that he is a troll. He is clearly a fellow Witness of Jehovah, and calling our doctrine 'stupid' or his discussion 'insane' is both unkind and unhelpful.
I'm waiting for him to reply, insulting each other just goes to show why more witnesses don't post here. Heavensgate, can you reply to me when you get chance? Thanks. -
Dismissing servant
DOT, why not trust your own thinking abilities? I am sure you have begun doing it a bit. Jst continue.
Just a few thoughts from me. The 1969 Awake was published during the 1975-hype. If Armageddon were supposed to come 1975 it was logical writing that youngsters would not have the time to get an education in this system. I am sure that very few JWs reacted to that article when it was published.
Then, ask youself about the teaching of the overlapping genrations. Ask youselt why the WT have changed that generation teaching four times since 1995. Hint, 1994 was 80 years after 1914.
-
heavensgate11
DOT
Now you can all pile on, have a good day.
Caption: Why the Worldwide Student Revolt, May 22, 1969 / 45 years later
What is the true meaning? You will not find the answer in this world's news sources, for they do not know. Nor can historians, philosophers, psychiatrists or other such individuals give you the answer, however well meaning they may be. Who, then, can tell us the real meaning behind the student revolt? Only this One: "The One telling from the beginning the finale, and from long ago the things that have not been done." That description is of Almighty God, Jehovah. It is found in the Bible book of Isaiah. Chapter 46. Verse 10.
PART1 of Paragraph: If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not?
Look at the world since 1914! What has happened to those dreams? Have the slogans been realized by all this violence? No, they have been dashed to pieces instead. Responsible authorities everywhere now agree that never in history did a. generation see such slaughter of innocent men, women and children. Never has
Starvation threatened so many of earth's population. Never was there such a worldwide explosion of lawlessness. Never did pollution threaten so seriously the very air we breathe, the water we drink and the land that grows our food. In this connection, Mr. Justice Jackson, giving his final testimony at the trial of
Nazi war criminals in Nuremberg, Germany, said the following, as recorded in
Tyranny on Trial:
MAY 22 1969
Look at the results! The world has seen more damage to life and property in our time than ever be· fore in history! It is now close to anarchy in many places. Is this to say that if you stay within legal bounds you will change the comes that the world and its rebellious young are taking? No, you will not. Why not? Because nothing is going to change this world's course. It is going to continue downward. Why? Is there a deeper meaning behind all this trouble? Is there greater significance to the revolt of young people taking place now? How does it affect you? What should you do about it for your own welfare? As the Creator of man, God knows far better than any human analyst why the student revolt is taking place and what it really means. He also knows what the final result will be. And he has not left sincere, searching persons without this
Information. He has revealed it in his inspired Word, the Holy Bible.-2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Amos 3;7.
PART 2 of Paragraph: Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt
System is due to end in a few years.
Face value, NO. It’s was not meant as a literal interpretation. The value at that time, you would have a happier life serving Jehovah than having to worry if you needed a higher education, was it that important for witnesses back then, seeing the unrest the student were having at that time. Did the WTS implicitly prevent any one with free will to get an education NO, Young Witnesses alike were attending Schools. Many of them went on to higher education. Depending in what cycle of life they were afforded, many young children back then didn’t have that simple luxury because of their status in life. It is relevant even today. Can we equate that in our present time NO, because times have changed and young people today have become more vested in higher education because of impossible economics that wasn’t present back then? It is much harder to get a job let a lone a good job today with just a high school diploma than it was in 1969, and that’s what the WTS brings to light. Events that are accruing at the time, and that’s why looking at past publicans are useless unless you actually understand the spirit in which it was written. Out of the many that dissolved their relationship with the JW’s today complain, how much fulfilled their lives would have been if they hadn’t listened to the WTS. How would they now that, did they have a crystal ball to ensure their life happiness? Well how many billions of people that are not JW’s feel the same way? That Society has robbed them of a better life. Is it the WTS Fault? Then it becomes a social issue on economics rather than a religious one. None that I knew had a gun pointed at their head and was forced to do anything that wasn’t within their personal lives. Those people pass this embittered value on to people that are willing to accept. Is it the truth, not by a long shot? But people will accept the obvious rather than understand the complex.
People with a clear understanding wouldn’t have bothered with the seminally controversial last portion of that paragraph. “System is due to end in a few years.” This is obviously an over sight of the writer back then. Is it false NO.? Even Jesus was proclaiming the End Times in his era. The purpose of a few years is to demonstrate how closer that generation was to the fulfillment of Christ presence. How much closer have we become since then. Could the article have been more specific, YES? What does that really show you? That all things man made is fallible. Have you not criticized my words? YES. Has anyone in this forum been exceptive to my thoughts? NO. Why because we are all free thinking humans and are programmed to accept only our thoughts, and as individuals within our own mind set truly believe our own truth without exception. However many in the JWN community believe their wisdom is superior, which makes it more of a threat rather than a liability. Granted, the view points are obvious that come from an atheist or evolutionist, but a true Christian which many profess to be here regardless of religious affiliation condemns true knowledge instead of possessing it. This is the ammunition the nay Sayers use to inject confusion. From the early works of written works, has any man possessed EXACT written works of knowledge? Read many books and ask yourself how many errors or flawed interpretations you found in them. You can not correlate one with the other. If that were true today, we would all be hanged for heresy according to ancient writing. REASONING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PART 3 of the Paragraph: Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus
foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34.
This was an interpretation of the bible student. No one living before 1914 wouldn’t have the privilege of god’s great day. Why was it posted in the AWAKE? The JW’s of today have a similar view and acknowledge other publishers view point whenever applicable. Just as the WTS publishes news or quotes of other news sources to make a point or distinction. How much of this has come true today. Not by Gods destruction but by mans own insatiable thirst for self destruction. Has anything changed since 1914 in our present day toward the world strife and how it’s gained momentum? How many 10’s of thousands of the world young have died? Not just in the streets but in schools by famine, wars, and violence. Also redirect yourself to page 14 of that publican. The quote above can be used even today.
Out of a simple paragraph written in 1969, it doesn’t look so clear cut after all. The words of man can be corrupted and made misleading as the JWfacts website indicates, to it, the blind leading the blind. Face value is never the way to read something in order to have true understanding. If you can’t understand this, that of which I can not make clearer, then you will never understand the words of CHRIST. Research it for yourself and comprehend. Do not place value on my words as only GOD will allow you to see the truth. Believe in him and you’ll be closer to the answer you seek. This is an apostate question that has been made by generations to ridicule and scuff at the JW organization. Only Christians with questionable faith in GOD do not understand. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matthew 6:26, but only through the worth of GOD. If you think greater than yourself, then you will reap what you sow Galatians 6:7-9
A true Christian doesn’t worry what they can’t answer, but how not to be possessed by those who profess to come from the truth.
Colossians 2:8-10
Don't let anyone lead you astray with empty philosophy and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the evil powers of this world, and not from Christ. 9 For in Christ the fullness of God lives in a human body, 10 and you are complete through your union with Christ. He is the Lord over every ruler and authority in the universe.
2 Timothy 4:3 ESV
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
1 Timothy 6:20-21 ESV
O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.
Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
2 Peter 2:1-3 ESV
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Colossians 2:8 ESV
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
John 14:26 ESV
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Matthew 6:1-4 ESV
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.