Perhaps religion or its equivalent is needed for collective action/survival of our species. I think it is premature to declare religion obsolete.
Religion is an opium
by alecholmesthedetective 49 Replies latest members adult
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Apognophos
I feel much more a part of this world now that I don't need a deity to tell me how to live my life and be good to one another than when I was religious. I'm much more connected to people, and I see that once we understand where we come from our kinship with our fellow creatures becomes blindingly obvious to see.
Were you a Witness before? Because Witnesses are taught to be separate from the world in a way that most religious people are not. So it's not fair to generalize your experience to other religious folk.
The unfortunate thing about religion is that, while it acts as a glue between small-scale tribes, creating a super-tribe at a medium scale, it has not yet been able to stretch to encompass all of humanity. In other worlds, the "small world" that we live in now, due to transportation and communication technology, is forcing suber-tribes to collide with each other. The people who were born in Muslim parts of the world cannot get along with the ones born in Christian parts of the world.
However, just as factions of Christianity are not killing each other as frequently as they used to, and now see each other mostly as fellow Christians, perhaps there's hope that all religions will gradually homogenize enough to allow all people to see each other as worshippers of the same God. If not, then indeed religion will have to be replaced by a new way of looking at humanity that brings everyone together into a single tribe. One possibility is secular humanism, though I'm not sold on it myself because I don't believe it's a fully rational viewpoint.
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Separation of Powers
Thank you for the consideration of Marx's comment Syme.
I would venture to say that religion today is unlike religion of the 19th century as Marx experienced it. Information is now open to the masses. So, the decision to remain religious in an increasingly more secular world is a choice influenced by something other than poverty or illiteracy/ignorance. Today, religion isn't a opiate in that it doesn't serve to "calm" the masses or direct them in a collective "stupor," no, relgion today is more like meth than opium.
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jgnat
I hate wearing other's people's shoes. Callus city!
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alecholmesthedetective
By all means let us unite for better causes. Every person should not just have the right but the access to education, health services, freedom of thought, etc. Much still needs to be done and is being done to change this. And religion is not at the forefront of change. Religion is theocratic, totalitarian, and you can't force people to do things. Democracy, with all its flaws, is the best way we have to accomplish the things we care about. I can campaign to end FGM and you can campaign to eradicate malaria. No coercion needed.
Personally I don't like religion or any surrender of our minds and faculties which I consider to be dangerous. However, I'm perfectly happy with people having their private beliefs. So long as religion doesn't try to pass laws to have their unfounded theories taught to our children, doesn't try to pass laws to promote bigotry, discrimination, doesn't stand in the way of science and scientific enquiry, doesn't prevent women from being full members of our society, doesn't try to encroach on the rights of others, and doesn't want to be tax-exempt, doesn't spread lies to prevent progress, such as 'condoms help spread AIDS', doesn't try to blow us sky high in terrorist attacks, doesn't systematically rape and torture our children, doesn't mutilate the genitals of children, etc., then I don't care about it.
My problem with religion is its claim to know the truth before we know anything. Philosophy and science have given us the best way to learn things about our world. Our knowledge of the cosmos and our planet keeps on growing and we can all find the numinous and the transcendent in them without any need for the supernatural.
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alecholmesthedetective
Were you a Witness before? Because Witnesses are taught to be separate from the world in a way that most religious people are not. So it's not fair to generalize your experience to other religious folk.
Yes I was a witness, but I was talking about myself, not other religious people. I'm against religion, not the people. Much like I hate the North Korean government, not their subjects.
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jgnat
alecholmes, my values fit more and more in the liberal spectrum, as described below.
Abusive organizations can take advantage of the conservative's native loyalty for instance, as X-JW's know too well. But loyalty can also be a very good thing. Community can be a very good thing. A study of two Chicago neighbourhoods through a deadly heat wave, for instance, indicated that the cohesive neighbourhood had fewer fatalities. People were watching out for each other more.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/encore/2013/01/03/neighborhood-ties-may-boost-longevity/
So I value the liberal morals higher, but I also have an affinity for community.
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alecholmesthedetective
I see, that's cool. I'm a liberal too.
By all means, let's have community and loyalty.
I think it's interesting to analyse how the countries Zuckerman researched in his book live without the majority of people being religious.
I wish more countries, who are not WEIRD as you mentioned, can have unfettered access to knowledge, education, and information.
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jgnat
Well, big organization will never be the same, with the improved access to information as you noted. We've had Arab Spring, made possible with (unmonitored, uncontrollable) social media. The Catholic church does not have a stranglehold on its parishioners or on government any more. So churches are forced to be a gentler, kinder version of themselves. Heck, check out the new Pope. He's holding the line on tradition (sanctity box above), but he's attacking greed and corruption like a saint.
Have you seen the work of Sugata Mitra in children's self-education?
