What is the story behind this picture of Rutherford at a drinking party??

EndofMysteries

I have seen this photo several times but never any back story on it. Was this at Bethel? Was this before or after the prohibition? Any idea on the what the occasion was and who the people are?

wasblind

Good question

All that's needed is the date that pic was taken

Yea and some more information. It's a great photo but unlike the photo of him w/ the mansion and rich detailed undisputable information I've never seen anything on this. Just rumors he liked to drink, drunkard, and this picture.

snakeface

Could that be a coffee urn?

EndofMysteries

Looks like a beer keg to me.

snakeface

They do look rather "relaxed".

Island Man

I would caption that picture:

"Let's have three cheers for the Generalissimo! Here, let's pour him a tall one . . ."

Or

"Bro. Rutherford, with this special contraption, you never have to go through the risk of smuggling liquor into Bethel again. With this special micro brewery you will be making your own liquor in the privacy of your own home . . . I mean, mansion - and good quality liquor too. Here, try some . . ."

clarity

Leo has been a great source of info...............

*

Leolaia	posted 4 years ago(8/26/2009)
Post 13005 of 16234 Joined 9/1/2002	The Olin Moyle trial made frequent reference to drinking at Bethel. In his testimony to the court, Moyle described new Bethelites being broken into the habit of drinking beer (p. 359) and the frequent use of beer and "stronger stuff" by the factory staff in the evening (p. 360). He mentioned an incident in which an intoxicated factory worker rang an alarm bell repeatedly late at night as a joke (pp. 361-362). His wife Phoebe Moyle described seeing many empty liquor and whiskey bottles in the rooms at Bethel where she worked as a housekeeper (p. 1587), and she said she was teased by the brothers inside the elevator, who said that she couldn't take her liquor (p. 186). Olin also related how when he was in the elevator, "the boys would remark there, make allusions, wish they had a barrel of beer around, how nice it would be to have a barrel of beer" (p. 359). In his public letter to Rutherford (dated 7/21/1939), Olin wrote that "one can't be a real Bethelite without drinking beer" and "under your tutelage there has grown up a glorification of alcohol and condemnation of total abstinence...You have publically labelled total abstainers as prudes and therefore must assume your share of responsibility for the Bacchus-like attitude exhibited by members of the family" (pp. 1736-1737). With respect to Rutherford himself, Olin's son Peter stated that "it has also been known, albeit carefully 'covered', that Rutherford liked his women and his whiskey" (published in the December 1972 United Israel Bulletin). Canadian branch overseer Walter Salter, in a letter to Rutherford (dated 4/1/1937), declared that "I, at your orders, would purchase cases of whiskey at $60.00 a case, and cases of brandy and other liquors, to say nothing of untold cases of beer. A bottle or two of liquor would not do; it was for THE PRESIDENT and nothing was too good for THE PRESIDENT. He was heaven's favorite, why should not he have everything that would gratify his desire for comfort". Salter did not charge just alcohol consumption but excessive consumption, and declared his own role in importing liquor from Canada (probably during Prohibition). An official response to this letter was published by Clayton J. Woodworth in the 5/5/1937 issue of the Golden Age. He did not question the factualness of Salter's statements but rather justified Rutherford's liquor consumption: "It is nothing new that Jesus and His followers are accused of being winebibbers. Did that charge affect in any way Jesus' standing with His heavenly Father? Not an iota. Why did Jesus use it? He was under great nervous strain. It provided a perfect nutrient, immediately assimilable. A chiropractor, once treating Judge Rutherford and the writer at the same time, said to the judge, as he saw his back suffering from ankylosis (six vertebrae fused together by pneumonia), 'You are a miracle of God's grace.' At the same time he said to the writer, 'He is bearing a burden that would utterly crush you.' Read that paragraph twice, and make the most of it, all you hypocrites that wish to remain hypocrites to the end. You will get your wish, and your reward." It is significant that Woodworth, who is strident in his polemic and who would not hesitate to accuse Salter of lying, concedes Salter's claims but justifies Rutherford's frequent use of alcohol by (1) comparing Rutherford to Jesus, and (2) giving a medical reason for the alcohol use. He calls Salter a hypocrite not for making up facts about Rutherford's drinking but for finding fault with it. Because Woodworth was a hostile witness, what he tacitly admits is quite credible. Woodworth indicates that Rutherford was self-medicating for pain (as he was suffering "under great nervous strain" like Jesus) and it appears that alcohol was prescribed by his San Diego chiropractor Alta Eckols to treat his condition. Woodworth's statements suggest that Rutherford believed that the amount of alcohol he drank was not immoderate given his serious physical condition. Perhaps it would be immoderate for the average person who did not suffer with the pain that Rutherford suffered, but Rutherford apparently felt that his condition justified the amount of alcohol he drank in order to treat it, or that God made allowances for his lack of moderation. A series of Watchtower articles published in 1929, in fact, expressed a similar view. In the 3/15/1929 Watchtower, Rutherford wrote that people who give into "weaknesses of the flesh" are "powerless to resist" such weaknesses and "do not desire to oppose or misrepresent God ... their hearts are not wicked.... God pities the sinners and makes allowances for their weakness" (pp. 93-95). Then in the 9/1/1929 Watchtower, he wrote that the Devil had misled people to believe that "swearing, committing adultery, getting drunk, or losing one's temper, or any other of the long list of fleshly weaknesses" constitute sin unto death, but he averred that "all these things are forgiveable. This explains why David could be a man after God's own heart. His heart was loyal, but his flesh was weak" (p. 271). Jim Penton reported a number of accounts by those who knew Rutherford, including an elderly woman in San Diego who "sold him great quantities of liquor when he came to purchase medicines in her husband's drugstore", and former Bethelites who "recount tales of his inebriation and druken stupors" (Penton, Apocalypse Delayed, 1997, pp. 72-73). He also mentions an interview he conducted in April 1972 with Frank Wainright, late Secretary-Treasurer of the IBSA of Canada, wherein Wainright reported the illegal importation of liquor from the Canadian branch office to Bethel during Prohibition. Penton also talked with Carl Prosser from Winnipeg, Manitoba, who attended the 1927 convention in Toronto, where Rutherford railed against Big Business. According to Prosser, Rutherford was so drunk that the staff had a hard time getting him to the lecturn but once there, he delivered the talk compentently. Moreover Penton met a man who once belonged to the Buffalo, New York, congregation who had a picture of Rutherford in Europe drunk posing with casks of wine; there is also the well-known photo of Rutherford and the beer keg. Although not clearly instances of drunken rages, Olin Moyle mentioned in his testimony that Rutherford had violent outbursts, including one incident when he threw a chair across "the whole length of the room" (p. 1597).

Leolaia

posted 4 years ago(8/26/2009)

Post 13005 of 16234
Joined 9/1/2002

The Olin Moyle trial made frequent reference to drinking at Bethel. In his testimony to the court, Moyle described new Bethelites being broken into the habit of drinking beer (p. 359) and the frequent use of beer and "stronger stuff" by the factory staff in the evening (p. 360). He mentioned an incident in which an intoxicated factory worker rang an alarm bell repeatedly late at night as a joke (pp. 361-362). His wife Phoebe Moyle described seeing many empty liquor and whiskey bottles in the rooms at Bethel where she worked as a housekeeper (p. 1587), and she said she was teased by the brothers inside the elevator, who said that she couldn't take her liquor (p. 186). Olin also related how when he was in the elevator, "the boys would remark there, make allusions, wish they had a barrel of beer around, how nice it would be to have a barrel of beer" (p. 359). In his public letter to Rutherford (dated 7/21/1939), Olin wrote that "one can't be a real Bethelite without drinking beer" and "under your tutelage there has grown up a glorification of alcohol and condemnation of total abstinence...You have publically labelled total abstainers as prudes and therefore must assume your share of responsibility for the Bacchus-like attitude exhibited by members of the family" (pp. 1736-1737).

With respect to Rutherford himself, Olin's son Peter stated that "it has also been known, albeit carefully 'covered', that Rutherford liked his women and his whiskey" (published in the December 1972 United Israel Bulletin). Canadian branch overseer Walter Salter, in a letter to Rutherford (dated 4/1/1937), declared that "I, at your orders, would purchase cases of whiskey at $60.00 a case, and cases of brandy and other liquors, to say nothing of untold cases of beer. A bottle or two of liquor would not do; it was for THE PRESIDENT and nothing was too good for THE PRESIDENT. He was heaven's favorite, why should not he have everything that would gratify his desire for comfort". Salter did not charge just alcohol consumption but excessive consumption, and declared his own role in importing liquor from Canada (probably during Prohibition). An official response to this letter was published by Clayton J. Woodworth in the 5/5/1937 issue of the Golden Age. He did not question the factualness of Salter's statements but rather justified Rutherford's liquor consumption:

"It is nothing new that Jesus and His followers are accused of being winebibbers. Did that charge affect in any way Jesus' standing with His heavenly Father? Not an iota. Why did Jesus use it? He was under great nervous strain. It provided a perfect nutrient, immediately assimilable. A chiropractor, once treating Judge Rutherford and the writer at the same time, said to the judge, as he saw his back suffering from ankylosis (six vertebrae fused together by pneumonia), 'You are a miracle of God's grace.' At the same time he said to the writer, 'He is bearing a burden that would utterly crush you.' Read that paragraph twice, and make the most of it, all you hypocrites that wish to remain hypocrites to the end. You will get your wish, and your reward."

It is significant that Woodworth, who is strident in his polemic and who would not hesitate to accuse Salter of lying, concedes Salter's claims but justifies Rutherford's frequent use of alcohol by (1) comparing Rutherford to Jesus, and (2) giving a medical reason for the alcohol use. He calls Salter a hypocrite not for making up facts about Rutherford's drinking but for finding fault with it. Because Woodworth was a hostile witness, what he tacitly admits is quite credible. Woodworth indicates that Rutherford was self-medicating for pain (as he was suffering "under great nervous strain" like Jesus) and it appears that alcohol was prescribed by his San Diego chiropractor Alta Eckols to treat his condition. Woodworth's statements suggest that Rutherford believed that the amount of alcohol he drank was not immoderate given his serious physical condition. Perhaps it would be immoderate for the average person who did not suffer with the pain that Rutherford suffered, but Rutherford apparently felt that his condition justified the amount of alcohol he drank in order to treat it, or that God made allowances for his lack of moderation. A series of Watchtower articles published in 1929, in fact, expressed a similar view. In the 3/15/1929 Watchtower, Rutherford wrote that people who give into "weaknesses of the flesh" are "powerless to resist" such weaknesses and "do not desire to oppose or misrepresent God ... their hearts are not wicked.... God pities the sinners and makes allowances for their weakness" (pp. 93-95). Then in the 9/1/1929 Watchtower, he wrote that the Devil had misled people to believe that "swearing, committing adultery, getting drunk, or losing one's temper, or any other of the long list of fleshly weaknesses" constitute sin unto death, but he averred that "all these things are forgiveable. This explains why David could be a man after God's own heart. His heart was loyal, but his flesh was weak" (p. 271).

Jim Penton reported a number of accounts by those who knew Rutherford, including an elderly woman in San Diego who "sold him great quantities of liquor when he came to purchase medicines in her husband's drugstore", and former Bethelites who "recount tales of his inebriation and druken stupors" (Penton, Apocalypse Delayed, 1997, pp. 72-73). He also mentions an interview he conducted in April 1972 with Frank Wainright, late Secretary-Treasurer of the IBSA of Canada, wherein Wainright reported the illegal importation of liquor from the Canadian branch office to Bethel during Prohibition. Penton also talked with Carl Prosser from Winnipeg, Manitoba, who attended the 1927 convention in Toronto, where Rutherford railed against Big Business. According to Prosser, Rutherford was so drunk that the staff had a hard time getting him to the lecturn but once there, he delivered the talk compentently. Moreover Penton met a man who once belonged to the Buffalo, New York, congregation who had a picture of Rutherford in Europe drunk posing with casks of wine; there is also the well-known photo of Rutherford and the beer keg. Although not clearly instances of drunken rages, Olin Moyle mentioned in his testimony that Rutherford had violent outbursts, including one incident when he threw a chair across "the whole length of the room" (p. 1597).

posted 4 years ago(8/26/2009)

wasblind

Snakeface

The first time I saw that pic, I thought it was Otis from Mayberry

Coffee drinkers don't slide thier hats to the back like that

or wrap their hands around a hot cup that's not insulated

.

That's a Keg

.

DATA-DOG

????????

"It is nothing new that Jesus and His followers are accused of being winebibbers. Did that charge affect in any way Jesus' standing with His heavenly Father? Not an iota. Why did Jesus use it? He was under great nervous strain. It provided a perfect nutrient, immediately assimilable. A chiropractor, once treating Judge Rutherford and the writer at the same time, said to the judge, as he saw his back suffering from ankylosis (six vertebrae fused together by pneumonia), 'You are a miracle of God's grace.' At the same time he said to the writer, 'He is bearing a burden that would utterly crush you.' Read that paragraph twice, and make the most of it, all you hypocrites that wish to remain hypocrites to the end. You will get your wish, and your reward."

So Jesus used wine to take the edge off during his life, but he refused to drink anything while being executed? Rutherford was a "miracle" because he was bearing a burden that would crush other mortals. I guess the guy deserved a drink in his mansion on the West Coast. I wonder if chronic pain and alcohol contributed to his delusions and false predictions??

DD

What is the story behind this picture of Rutherford at a drinking party??

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