So, I was thinking about Pierce's dead. So, supposely he is in heaven, right? and down here on earth, they are going to give a talk about him, maybe with his body present or his body already buried, but the question is, if his body is still here on earth, what went to heaven? Is not that what other religions call soul??
GB when they die, there's a paradox
by pixel 13 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
quellycatface
Their bucket, squeegee and little invoice book.
-
quellycatface
Oh shoot, I forgot the bloody ladder!!!
-
snowbird
ROFL!!!
Y'all are too much.
Sylvia
-
DATA-DOG
Jesus said that he entrusted his spirit to his Father. The WT says that the "soul" goes back to GOD, but then they contradict themselves as usual. The Bible Teach book says that Jesus spirit did not go back to heaven. Notice the watchtarded reasoning.
Speaking about man’s death, Ecclesiastes 12:7 states: “The dust [of his body] returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.” [ OK....????] When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from—the earth. Comparably, the life-force returns to where it came from—God. [ Where does GOD live?????] (Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9) This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. [ Uh?? Didn't they just say the spirit went back to GOD???] Rather, it means that for someone who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. [ In heaven, right???] His life is in God’s hands, [ In heaven, right??] so to speak. Only by God’s power [ In heaven, right??] can the spirit, or life-force, [ Which returned to GOD in heaven, right??] be given back so that a person may live again.
DD
-
pixel
All crazy. Where is Pierce now? in heaven?? so, why his body is still here? what ent up? the soul? the spirit?*
*I don't belive in none of this. Just bringing up how crazy the GB/WT/FDS/TheBig7 are.
-
suavojr
If Pierce is in heaven and he knows who he is, what he did down on earth, what was Resurrected? The apostle Paul said:1 cor 15: 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first, but the physical, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is [j] from heaven.
So the WT has it wrong once again!
-
Cold Steel
If Jesus had a premortal existence, then he is an eternal being. And if he didn't go to "heaven" when he died, where did he go?
He went where all men go when they die; he went to the spirit realm, where he "preached to the spirits" in prison. Even though he was put to death in the flesh, he was "quickened" (or made alive) in the spirit. This realm is divided into Hell and Paradise, and is a holding area for spirits until the Judgment and Resurrection. God does not dwell in Paradise, but as Origen (an early church father) put it: “After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits in which everything they saw on earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees.”
The apostle Peter bore this out when he wrote:
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)
This explains Jesus' statement to the thief on the cross: "Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise." The Jehovah's Witness argument that Jesus was saying, "Look, I'm telling you today, you will be with me in Paradise." It doesn't make sense on a number of levels. First, there are no other places in scripture where Jesus or anyone else states that they are saying something "today." It's not necessary. Also, nowhere does it say that Paradise is Heaven, nor would the thief be a candidate for Heaven. If Paradise is a place of learning, or school of the spirits, as Origen said, then Jesus' statement to the thief makes perfect sense. And it explains why Jesus had not yet ascended to his Father in Heaven. Peter again elucidates this in the very next chapter where he writes: " ...who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
Jesus judges both the living and the dead. And in the spirit world he explains that ordinary men can hear the gospel preached to them, even though they're dead. That they might live as spirits, yet be judged as if they were still living in the flesh. This blows the concept of man being just a life force that ceases to be at death. And once a life force ceases to be, a recreation, or reinstitution, of that life force is simply an exact copy, with all the thoughts and memories of the original. It will be "you" in every respect; however, God would be able to make as many copies as he wished. In other words, he could reconstitute you as many times as he wished, since all you are is a life force, and I don't believe that doctrine for an instant. There's only one "you" — and if you cease to exist for any reason, you will simply be a recreation if he decides you're worth keeping around. .
So whether Jesus was Jehovah or Michael in premortality, he had to have had a central processing element that could be put into a body or taken out of a body, and that is an eternal spirit. If the prophet Jeremiah was chosen and ordained before his birth, the same thing must have been true of him. (See Jeremiah 1:5) And if him, then us. That is why Guy Pierce, as a spirit, is now learning the gospel as it really is.
.
-
AnnOMaly
the question is, if his body is still here on earth, what went to heaven? Is not that what other religions call soul??
Bingo!
They believe (without realizing it LOL) a kind of substance dualism for the 'anointed' who die from 1918; monism for everyone else. Two kinds of human with two different natures. Very Gnostic.
Overview: http://cct.biola.edu/blog/2013/jan/08/overview-monism-dualism-debate-human-composition/
-
kurtbethel
It gets better.
Since his body is laid out on the slab, and his spirit returns to God, but is nothing but a life force and does not contain his personality, the WT teaches that God has all his memories copied and stored somewhere. I am not making this up. So a body will be made that can endure the extremes of pressure and radiation in Heaven, and his memories will be downloaded into that body Battlestar Galactica Cylon style. The copy will have memories so detailed that it will sincerely believe it lived on Earth even though it never did.
I am not making this up. But the Watchtower did.