When and where is the War in Heaven, supposedly? (page 2)

KateWild

Goodpoint Searcher, although it has nothing to do with the war, in the OT no one was demon possessed. Even in the book of Job when Satan was being a so and so, and in Genesis when the angels materialised bodies, but nothing was ever written about demon possession. Thanks for that. Kate xx

mynameislame

I found a few evil spirits referenced in the OT

Interestingly all were sent by God

1 Samuel 16:14 Now the spirit of Jehovah had departed from Saul, and a bad spirit from Jehovah terrorized him

1 Samuel 18:10 The next day a bad spirit from God gripped Saul, and he started to act strangely inside the house, while David was playing music on the harp as on other occasions.
1 Samuel 19:9 And a bad spirit from Jehovah came upon Saul when he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand, while David was playing music on the harp.

Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech

sparrowdown

Indeed, why were there no demon posessed on OT.

The thing is, there was alot of illness and barren-ness and bad weather all contributed to Gods displeasure. Is it maybe a earlier understanding of misfortune.

I have no idea of course I am just guessing.

sparrowdown

Yes that's right, is bad spirit the same as demon?

Maybe Saul was just in a really bad mood.

Again don't claim to know just guessin.

gingerbread

This 'war' takes place in the pages of the Bible.

Other cultures throughout history have verbal and written tales about wars 'in heaven' between spirit creatures/gods - Greek mythology is a common reference.

ginger

ablebodiedman

1)When did this war breakout or did I miss it.

I attempted to find the answer to this question by looking for an extraordinary manifestation of "lightning" in the public record around the year 1914.

Using what was at the time a relatively new Internet search engine called "Google".

I looked around the year 1914 simply because of what I had learned as a Jehovah's Witness and also because of what Jesus Christ said; "At that he said to them: "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven."

I was and still am very excited about what I discovered.

Made a video about my endeavor here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTKjvInShZQ

abe

kaik

If there was, is, or would be a spiritual warfare in different dimension, we will never known. You must also see that the writters of the OT & NT were not aware Earth as a planet in a huge galaxy. They believed that the Heaven surrounds this planet and all the writtings about heavenly warfare needs to be taken into the same context.

BluesBrother

Supposedly

Wt 2009 5/15 p18
So, then, the Bible does not reveal the exact time when Satan and his demons were expelled from heaven. Nevertheless, it is evident that this event closely followed the enthronement of Jesus Christ in heaven in 1914.

Wt 2014 2/15 pp3 - 8

He strapped on his sword in 1914, when he defeated Satan and the demons and threw them out of heaven down to the earth.—Revelation 12:7-9.

blondie

The WTS has said that heaven, God, angels, are outside the physical universe.

(or even the Pleiades...constellation)

In Thy Kingdom Come(1891), the third of a seven volume series, he (CTR) argues that Jehovah resides on a star called Alcyone in the Pleiades star cluster located in the constellation Taurus. Arguing more like an Ancient Astronaut Theorist than a theologian, he wrote concerning the center of the cosmos:

Astronomers are not yet fully agreed as to what or where that center is. Some, however, believe that they have found the direction of it to be the Pleiades, and particularly Alcyone, the central one of the renowned Pleiadic stars. To the distinguished German astronomer, Prof. J. H. Maedler, belongs the honor of having made this discovery. Alcyone, then, as far as science has been able to perceive, would seem to be ‘the midnight throne’ in which the whole system of gravitation has its central seat, and from which the Almighty governs his universe.[1]

Bobcat

As a starting point, Satan's ouster from heaven would depend on when Jesus was enthroned in heaven. If you look at the bottom of my post here, you will see several links that lead to Scriptural references that Jesus was enthroned shortly after he returned to heaven.

If one accepts the idea that Jesus was enthroned as king when he returned to heaven in the 1st century then:

Satan’s ouster from heaven, depicted in Revelation 12, directly after, and as a result of, 'the woman's child being caught away to God and to His throne (an oblique reference to the start of the 'child's' rule). This would tie Satan's ouster with the enthronement of Jesus, shortly after he returned to heaven. (Revelation 12:5-9)

This view, that Satan was ousted shortly after Jesus returned to heaven, would correspond nicely with the fact that Jesus, while on earth, said that this would be an event then soon to take place, and linked it with his death:
(John 12:31, 32 NWT) . . . Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And yet I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw men of all sorts to me.

Regarding “now” in John 12 (Greek nun, Strong’s #3568), AMG’s Greek WordStudy Dictionary understands it in this verse (as also with Acts 13:11; Phil 1:20; John 16:5; Acts 26:17) as meaning, “In reference to future time just at hand. . . As implying what is immediately to take place.” (p. 1019) Similarly, BDAG (Bauer’s 3rd Edition Lexicon) defines it as “a temporal marker with focus on the moment as such, now.” And with regard to John 12:31 (and the other pasages referenced in the AMG reference) as “of time shortly before or shortly after the immediate pres[ent].”

Consider also John 16:11 -

(John 16:7-11 NWT) . . .Nevertheless, I am telling YOU the truth, It is for YOUR benefit I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will by no means come to YOU; but if I do go my way, I will send him to YOU. 8 And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 in the first place, concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and YOU will behold me no longer; 11 then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

Verse 11 is the verse of interest. But I included from verse 7 for context. The verb “has been judged” (in verse 11) is “perfect,” a completed action. Alternate renderings of the verse at BibleHub bring this out also. (See here.) Although this verse is indirect evidence, it would make plain why Jesus would say in John 12:31, “now the ruler of this world will be cast out.” There was no reason to let Satan remain in heaven for another 1900 years.

Also note that Satan’s ouster from heaven is connected to his having been an “accuser of our brothers.” (Revelation 12:10) Paul, in his writings, indicated that no one then was in a position to “accuse” Christians:

(Romans 8:31-34 NWT) . . .What, then, shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who will be against us? 32 He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things? 33 Who will file accusation against God’s chosen ones? God is the One who declares [them] righteous. 34 Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us. . .

(Colossians 1:21, 22 NWT) . . .Indeed, YOU who were once alienated and enemies because YOUR minds were on the works that were wicked, 22 he now has again reconciled by means of that one’s fleshly body through [his] death, in order to present YOU holy and unblemished and open to no accusation before him . . .

These verses make a lot more sense if Satan has already been cast out of heaven in the 1st century, as described in Revelation 12:7-12. In effect, Jesus' sacrifice provided the legal basis for throwing Satan out of court.

And finally, from a historical perspective. Satan's ouster from heaven is linked to 'woe for the earth and sea.' (Revelation 12:12)
In the centuries that followed Jesus' return to heaven, the greatest empire up to that time broke up and Europe entered the Dark Ages which lasted until somewhere between the 8th and 11th centuries, according to who is doing the reckoning. Human population is thought to have declined during that period. Education basically stopped for all but a few. Wars, famines, and plagues (the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th horseman of the apocalypse, which follow the crowning of the 1st horse rider - Revelation 6) were rampant on a scale that make the 20th century seem downright tame by comparison. (As some here have pointed out.)

Take Care

When and where is the War in Heaven, supposedly?

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