Heres the thing dor believers likee and sylvia...if Jesus only calls those who he draws or Jehovah draws us....why so many who feel loaded down or WHY so much evidence in contradiction to it? Truste if god indeed wanted all to be saved, he wouldve made spirituality testable, observable, with miracles and prophecies fulfilled withing the open light
Jesus was a False Prophet - But was he deluded or deceitful?
by cofty 48 Replies latest watchtower bible
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truthseeker
I don't believe Jesus was a false prophet but I cannot deny the verses. They are in black and white for all to see.
the problem is there is no obvious demarkation in the scriptures between the tribulation of 70 AD and the forthcoming tribulation of the future, assuming there is a secondary tribulation. The verses all flow in one narrative so it's hard to tell what Jesus was really thinking.
Two millenniums later and many of us our scratching our head wondering where is this promised second coming.
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kaik
I also would consider the verses that are in Matt 10:15, 12:41-42, where Jesus talked about judgment of his generation. 1st century citizens of Tyre and Sidon are long dead. St. Augustine in his City of God put the Judgment Day after the resurrection:
The Savior Himself, while reproving the cities in which He had done great works, but which had not believed, and while setting them in unfavorable comparison with foreign cities, says, “But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment than for you. ”And a little after He says, “Verily, I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the Day of Judgment than for thee.” Here He most plainly predicts that a day of judgment is to come. And in another place He says, “The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: forshe came from the utter most parts of the earth to hear the words of Solomon; and behold a greater than Solomon is here.” Two things we learn from this passage, that a judgment is to take place, and that it is to take place at the resurrection of the dead. For when He spoke of the Ninevites and the queen of the south, He certainly spoke of dead persons, and yet He said that they should rise up in the Day of Judgment. He did not say, “They shall condemn,” as if they themselves were to be the judges, but because, in comparison with them, the others shall be justly condemned.
So, this Christian father living 400 years after Jesus pointed out on judgment of generation from four centuries before. So question is who is going to be judged when death payback for the sins...
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Borges
In 2013 Reza Alsan published the Book "Zelot. The Life time of Jesus of Nazareth" (Random House). He describes Jesus a jewish Zelot in restistance to the roman occupiers, dreaming of a theocracy established by him an his followers - Gods Kingdom. The picture the gosples are drawing of Jesus, is what his followers made up after Jesus death and the obvious fail of all his predictions and ambitions.
Azlans Book is a very good read for everyone, who is interested in the question cofty raised in this thread.
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Viviane
Zealot was an excellent book.
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Comatose
Enjoyed Zealot as well. There lots of crazy ass guys claiming to be the Messiah back then.
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Heaven
I'm with John Mann. I lean towards Jesus being an urban legend, a myth created to start the Chri$tian Faith industry. Is there any evidence that supports Jesus actually existed?
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KateWild
The Jesus of the Bible was more deluded than decietful. The Bible portrays Jesus as caring and kind in many scriptures. Okay some texts protray him as a home wrecker, but IMO that was written to control people.
The historical Jesus was probably much nicer and less deluded than the Jesus of the bible, but we cannot know for sure. I think that he genuinely cared about the opressed people and that he really wanted to help. I believe he tried to change the rules and condemned people in authority, this resulted in his death.
I would like to give historical Jesus the benefit of the doubt.
Kate xx
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Phizzy
" I would like to give historical Jesus the benefit of the doubt. " I like to do that too Kate, and we will probably never know much about him for sure, ever, so who can be dogmatic ?
I think arguing about the fictional Jesus is as silly as debating about aspects of Harry Potter's personality and life.
I do have a feeling that the myth is based on a real person , and that sometimes we get snatches of his real teaching, perhaps even the Pericope de Adultera is one such instance, the bit of John's Gospel that is certainly not found in early manuscripts, but shows the revolutionary way that Jesus had with dealing with the Law and with practical problems.
The Sermon on the Mount too may contain much of his actual words, but no one can say for sure.
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designs
Borges- In my reading of the Gospels in light of Jewish commentaries it appears that Jesus was delusional, but the twist is he never comdemned Rome instead he viciously attacked Jews. Very strange megalomaniac character.