Bowen Disfellowshipping/Daramsala Salt Works

by Francois 20 Replies latest jw friends

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  Francois

  Bill Bowen's disfellowshipping is very likely to have the same effect as the attack, by British and conscripted Indian forces, on Gandhi's followers who attempted to close the Daramsala Salt Works. This event marked the end of the British Raj in India - even though the Brits stayed in nominal power a couple more years. The unprincipled and immoral attack upon unarmed demonstrators showed the world the utter lack of ethics and morals of the the British lording it over someone else in their own home.

  Likewise, the JW attacks, disfellowshipping of people who attempt to protect the most defenseless, the most helpless, the most innocent members of our society, is a carbon-copy of the arrogance of the British Raj in India - and at the salt works that fateful day.

  These disfellowshippings will demonstrate to the world the complete moral degeneracy of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. And even though its house of cards may stand for a little while longer, the WTBTS's back will be broken.

  This is a time of great victory over the oppressors in this satan-spawn organization. I hope that all who can will be present outside the KH while Bill's kangaroo court is meeting. Lift your heads up and stand erect. All the struggle is about to produce fruitage.

  Francois
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  Amazing

  Good points Francois: This particular issue of child abuse does seem to be the pivotal issue which is exposing the entire Watchtower religious system as a fraud, devoid of ethics, and lacking common basic concern for more important things than their marketing image.

  I think the DF'ing of Bill, Barbara, and the Pandelo's will have a very temporary effect on the JWs to not believe or trust the news, especially the Dateline program. The rest of society will be affected, and perhaps not welcome JWs at all when they go door-to-door.

  I hope that as many people as possible will video-tape the Dateline segment, so that it can be shared wil any JWs who might cross their path. Imagine going to a door as a JW, and have the householder mention this issue! How ill-prepared JWs will be when confronted. And if a JW tries to deflate the issue with whatever Watchtower training they get from Service Meetings, it will backfire on them. I would be horribly embarassed to go to doors after such a program aired.

  I think in the long term, the tarnished image will add to the already existing momentum of JWs leaving the religion. Even if the Watchtower manages to change policies, it will be as always, too little, too late.

  The Watchtower seems to forget that their power is not from God, but from its members who support and finance their religion. If that starts to erode any more than it already is, they will eventually be forced out of business.
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  accuracy

  I do not see it as having that effect.

  It is likely that the actual number of JW members involved in pedophilia, as opposed to the speculated and possibly inflated estimates bandied about rather freely here, are small. You could find the same numbers in any grouping of people, anywhere. Pedophilia is a worldwide societal problem that cuts across all lines. It cannot be used to tarnish one group any more than another.

  Anyone you work with, live among, associate with, or be on the internet with, could be a pedophile. Or not.
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  SEAKEN2001

  I don't think the world will take notice, Francois. The JW's barely register on the radar. But for those who are watching it is a clear demonstration of the arrogance of the WTS and may cause some loyalists to question the leadership about tactics.

  Accuracy, the reason this sibject is so much more of a "problem" in the WTS is because thie organization claims to speak directly to God and to be the only channel to God in all the earth. The organization itself is held up as irreprehensible. The leaders all claim that the Holy Spirit is directing the appointment of men to positions of oversight, even directing individual efforts of the rank and file as they pursue the preaching work. There is no room for even a single pedophile among the "unified" organization of "God's people". The fact that there are countless victims of abuse, whatever the actual numbers, is reason enough to be very critical of this "clean" organization.

  Sean
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  Francois

  Accuracy, I think your reasoning is deficient. This is allegedly GOD'S organization we're talking about here. Your statement that "You could find the same numbers in any grouping of people, anywhere," is half a loaf. This isn't just "any grouping of people," is it?

  JWs boast about producing "better fathers and mothers, sisters, brothers and cousins; better grandparents; better members of society who pay their taxes, work hard, and are more honest, trustworthy, moral and ethical."

  None of these claims the JWs make for themselves is true.

  JWs are MORE LIKELY to be dishonest, immoral, unethical; MORE likely to be spousal abusers, alcoholics, cheats, liars, child sex abusers, and suicides.

  The disfellowshipping of Bowen and the others, this killing the messanger, does not speak of a strong, divinely led organization; it speaks of weakness, cowardice, venality, and mendacity.

  If the GB is so strong and morally upright, being led by God, then why won't they come out and publically debate, as J.F. Rutherford did in his time? And, as Rutherford said, those who refuse to debate their beliefs know those beliefs to be false. I have offered to take on the entire governing body and their entire cadre of attorneys all alone, by myself, at any reasonable time and place of their choosing. And I know full well they are aware of this challenge. I have been met with nothing but the cowardly silence of those who know their beliefs to be false.

  Down with the Jehovah's Witness Spiritual Raj!

  Francois
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  Seeker4

  Accuracy,

  You're probably correct that the JWs don't necessarily have any more pedophiles among them than any other religion. That's not the point.

  The point is the Witness' claim to moral and spiritual superiority over any and all other groups, especially religions. In Witness teaching, ALL other religions are false and under the control of Satan. ONLY the Witnesses, they claim, are guided and controlled DIRECTLY by Jehovah through Jesus and the 144,000. ONLY the Witnesses have the Holy Spirit directing their actions, including the appointment of their elders, and the choosing of those who make up the 144,000 and the Governing Body.

  According to their own extraordinary claims then, the Witnesses HAVE to be better than any other religion. To say they just have the same problems as all other groups makes them, well, just like all the other groups. But central to Witness theology is that THEY ARE NOT LIKE ALL OTHER GROUPS, they are SUPERIOR to all these other groups because they are the only true religion. Other religions are CONTROLLED BY SATAN, JWs are GUIDED BY GOD, so JWs CAN'T have problems just like all the other religions because it makes a lie of their claimed superiority.

  For many of us, this is the lie at the core of why we left the Witnesses. Unlike Francois, I don't think the pedophile issue or the disfellowshipping of the whistleblowers will break the back of the WTS. I think this is just one more of the thousand cuts that are bleeding the Witnesses slowly to death. These are bigger cuts than most, for sure, but hardly a death blow.

  Where this will have it's greatest effect is among potential Witnesses in the future, who find out all of this when they decide to check out this group trying to study the Bible with them and they type "Jehovah's Witnesses" into a search engine. Most current JWs will make excuses like Accuracy did - "oh this happens in all religions." Some few will have the courage and intelligence to think about this and compare it to the claims of the WTS.

  They will see that it is true - Jehovah's Witnesses ARE just another religion, and a pathetic one at that.

  S4
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  metatron

  There's a point here that I keep emphasizing that keeps getting overlooked.

  The Watchtower is dying as a ideology - the coherence of the
  organization is increasingly based on threats of df'ing, not
  honest belief. This, like the British empire or Soviet Union,
  is the beginning of the end game. The Watchtower, Awake, and
  meetings are full of a lot of nothing because they don't know
  what to teach anymore.

  In addition, there are reams of things they can't openly teach.
  The governments are led by the Devil, homosexuality is evil
  (hate speech), women are inferior, and so on.

  The recent events of open , casual, and almost contemptuous
  lying by the Society tells you how eroded the whole belief
  system is at the top. At the bottom, masses of Witness youth
  lead double lives, while divorce and family breakdown run
  rampant in congregations.

  The dramatic, non-linear moment comes when large numbers
  of Witnesses openly express doubt and disbelief in enforced
  Watchtower doctrine - when that happens, game over and
  the whole thing crumbles.

  metatron
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  detective

  From this "outsiders" perspective, the reason this is such a problem is not their claim of speaking directly for god. The problem, as I see it, is that this group has no desire to fix the problem. Their only solution at present is to ignore it, deny it, or if they can't get away with hiding it- dumping the offender out into the "world" without warning or consideration for the "worldly" ones who might cross the offenders path. They are more concerned with their allegedly spotless reputation (and their wallets) then they are with looking after innocent victims within and outside of their organization. They demonstrate absolutely no concern in their callous dealings. They fail to acknowledge their obvious inability to put in place procedures that will help protect people from sexual predators.
  I understand accuracy saying that you can't hold pedophilia against them as there are deviant criminals in all groups but what you can and should hold against the watchtower is how they deal with it.

  As an outsider, I don't really care what those deluded kooks in Brooklyn think of their spiritual mission and being the only true believers. I wouldn't care if they thought they were Santa's special elves.
  What I do care about is:
  1) They kill people (blood policy,organ transplants-
  not to mention ignoring depression, etc.)
  2) They do nothing to protect people within their organization from pedophiles.

  3)They think so little of those outside their group they will toss
  a pedophile out into the "world" or allow a pedophile to come to my door. They don't give a rats ass about anyone except their comically inflated image.

  And, on a personal note, I get more than a little pissed off by their self-righteousness and utter disregard for honesty.
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  Guest 77

  Francois, Amazing, Seeker4, metatron, and detective, right on! Everyone should print out this post and save it for future reference, because you all hit the nail on the head.

  These smokescreens need to be exposed. We need to stay with the 'issues' that apply to the WTBTS, not the outside world.

  Guest 77
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  AlanF

  Accuracy, listen to what the posters on this thread are telling you. They're dead nuts on.

  I'm certain that you have some connections with Greg Stafford. He has seen the light. You should listen to honest critics and see the light too. Quit limping upon the opinions of the dishonest men who are at present leading the Jehovah's Witnesses. Stand up for what is right, honor your Christian principles, and fulfill your dedication to emulate the God of Truth.

  AlanF