Bowen Disfellowshipping/Daramsala Salt Works

by Francois 20 Replies latest jw friends

Schibolet

This particular issue of child abuse does seem to be the pivotal issue which is exposing the entire Watchtower religious system as a fraud, devoid of ethics, and lacking common basic concern for more important things than their marketing image.
Oh dream on, dude. You're a fraud. This will have the same effect as your little justice series and your life history. Zilch. It only affects that are already out of the organization, not those in. I can't believe you would say such a general, demonic accusation: "lacking basic concern for more important things than their marketing image". You know very well that JWs love each other very much. They are not out to hurt children, but to protect them. All of you apostates just wanted done your way, and if the Watchtower does not do things your way, then they don't care for the children. That's bull crap, and you know it.
Most of you don't give a damn about Witness children, you only rejoice in finding fault with the Watchtower. That's what feeds your fuel.
Anyone you work with, live among, associate with, or be on the internet with, could be a pedophile. Or not.
That could be true even in this forum.
Other religions are CONTROLLED BY SATAN, JWs are GUIDED BY GOD, so JWs CAN'T have problems just like all the other religions because it makes a lie of their claimed superiority.
Could you point to the publication that says that all members of JWs are perfect human beings? Didn't think so... Isreal was guided by God, did they have problems? The first Christian congregation was guided by God, did they have problems?
BUt I understand, you will say any nonsense in order to justify your attacks on Witnesses.
The Watchtower is dying as a ideology - the coherence of the
organization is increasingly based on threats of df'ing, not
honest belief.
LOL. Whatever. Yea everytime I attend a meeting, they tell us to be good or they will disfellowship us! LOL. No more nonsense please, you're killing me...
Stand up for what is right, honor your Christian principles, and fulfill your dedication to emulate the God of Truth.
Now AlanF comes up with this beautiful counsel. It seems that he is such a spiritual man and wants you to do the right thing. The truth of the matter is that AlanF does not even believe in God and less the Bible, so let's see that makes him a... oh yeah a hypocrite!
Cheers...
Schibolet
freeman

Pedophilia is a major issue, and an issue that everyone on the planet can relate to and as shown by the media feeding-frenzy, even the powerful Catholic Church has taken significant blows over because they were found to be ‘not quite on the correct side of this issue’. One can only imagine how the public will view the Watchtower’s position of not only letting these innocent kids suffer but then in some cases persecuting the whistle-blowers and advocates of the children, and the victims too. This is a position FAR MORE ‘on the wrong side of this issue’ then the Catholic Church has ever been.
IMHO, I believe this issue and the full airing of all this dirty laundry once the Date Line show airs will mark a pivotal time in Watchtower history. The fact that the Watchtower is involved in the same type of scandal as Christendom’s churches is of no small significance. It has already had an effect, mainly with the public and to a lesser degree with witnesses that were already starting to question some of the dogma and the less then Christian practices of this organization. Now rather then being an obscure minor religion with some strange beliefs, many will be alert to the fact that this religion does some pretty bad things. Other issues such as blood, shunning, the UN scandal etc. will likely get more exposure as a result. Once again we see the Watchtower shooting itself in the foot.
I am glad I don’t have to deal with this issue out in field service now that some of the papers have picked up on this. Just imagine how hard it will be after Date Line airs. Imagine trying to defend the indefensible conduct of the Watchtower, wow!
Freeman
Seeker4

Schibolet - a newbie with four posts. I think we can add another name to the "rash of JW apologists" who have suddenly found a voice to speak up on a board that they have obviously been lurking on for a while! Welcome!
You have, of course, missed the point of my post. First, I said nothing about individual Witnesses being "perfect human beings" (By the way, the Witnesses do not refer to humans as 'beings' - that is used only in reference to Jehovah. He's the only "being" in JW theology. Check it out.) I referred only to the Witness CLAIM of being the only God-directed true religion, and I don't think even you would question that that is actually what JWs teach.
And then you use that sad old argument that there were problems in Israel and in the first century congregations, which shows it's OK for the modern organization to have problems. I was a JW elder for years, you don't think I've heard that before? That argument simply PROVES my point exactly. ALL the groups that have claimed some special relationship, direction and holy spirit from God, making them superior as HIS chosen people, have all been full of shit.
Israel and the early Christians imagined and claimed to be guided by God, but you're right, what they did shows that to be a lie. They were simply just like everyone else, and just like all the other religions.
And guess what? So are Jehovah's Witnesses.
I'm glad you're here, Schibolet, even as bogus as your arguments are. You'll likely begin to realize that soon. Somehow, the fact that you're here indicates you may already have some concerns about the WTS. It may take you a year, or five, but let me be the first to welcome you to the wonderful world of apostasy - where thinking is not only encouraged, it's required!
S4
Joseph Joachim

Detective, I agree with you 100%. But most ex-dubs here are still too emotionally attached to the cult to see how INSIGNIFICANT the WTS is for the rest of the world. See Freeman's post above for example, see what I mean?
All this buisness is a storm in a cup of tea. JW will say it's just apostate propaganda and will not listen, non-JW will not care; I doubt the Dateline program will be picked up by other media, so most people will not even hear about it.
SYN

Schibolet: Sigh...here comes another troll feeding post...here goes: You obviously haven't yet had the 'privelege' of experiencing how the Society handles molestation cases in non-reporting states. Damn, but you are uninformed. Sheesh, once you have finished reading all the accounts on SilentLambs, come back and speak with us again.
LOL. Whatever. Yea everytime I attend a meeting, they tell us to be good or they will disfellowship us! LOL. No more nonsense please, you're killing me...
Um. Erk. BLAMMO. You've just hang, drawn & quarted yourself with this naive little statement. You and I are both very much aware of the fact that if we speak up in ANY meeting and challenge what is being said, instead of meekly submitting to EVERY SINGLE THING being forced down our throats in a meeting, we will be "counselled". If one of us were to keep comitting this offense (yes, only in the Society is it considered an offense to ask questions, and you damn well know it baby), then your or I would eventually get kicked out, eh? Nobody would answer our questions. No, we would be referred to the literature, which is essentially the same thing as what is being muttered on the platform. HAHA. You're trapped and you can't even realize it yet. But yeah, we're corrupting you slowly but surely. This site is like a drug for Dubs, because we are so free here, and they begin to realize just what it is they're missing when they come here. Welcome to the Dark Side, baby! WOOHOO! Now you can leave that boring life behind and become a human again!
Come on, tell me what you think about the speaking up at meetings thing, do! I'm terribly eager to hear your response to this!
"If men were like their personal ads, they wouldn't need personal ads."
metatron

Schibolet, you are a liar.
I cared about my daughter deeply and still do.
I spent at least 15 years carefully doing what the Watchtower
said. I went out in service every weekend and tried to attend
every meeting - with my family. I conducted a weekly Bible
study with my family - I did it all.
And what did I find? That my daughter was molested, that the
elders lied about it and covered it up - and got her to shut
up about it - until they could df her - long after she left
the cong and territory.
All of the proof was in hand, even admissions by elders.
The Society did nothing, period.
They are liars and so are you.
I care about my kid and other Witness kids.
It's the evil old men in the watchtower who don't give a sh*t
about anything but their own position and power.
metatron
Axelspeed

quote-
"Could you point to the publication that says that all members of JWs are perfect human beings? Didn't think so... Isreal was guided by God, did they have problems? The first Christian congregation was guided by God, did they have problems?"
-end quote.
One thing you don't acknowledge is that, according to WT both of these organizations eithered turned bad or were corrupted over time. For instance, take Israel,...they saw all the miracles and deliverences, and so one would believe, had unmistakable evidence that they were "God's chosen". The "rank and file" therefore had no reason to question the religious leaders, in fact to do so might mean your life.
When Christ appeared the Jewish religious leaders warned all against following under threat of expulsion ie. disfellowshipping and were thrown out of the synagogue. For them, this meant not only religious, but economic and social ramifications much more severe than even the JW now faces, as at that time the whole nation, thus ALL your ties were "chosen".
Obviously for any to become a Christian, from a Jew's standpoint they would have to become "apostate" from an organization that they knew was (at one time at least) undeniably "God's chosen".
They were faced inevitably faced with a Crisis of Conscience.
"Do I follow the religious leaders, the priest, no matter how faulty or imperfect... because these are God's people? Should I stay with it as a test of loyalty? We do have the law of Moses...you know. Would God punish me for just following instructions from his chosen?"
or
"Do I take a chance...in spite of what the leaders, my family, my friends, and everything I have ever been taught says? and listen to this Jesus guy?"
Obviously to blindly follow the first line of reasoning would mean that no one would convert to Christianity (ie apostasize from Judaism).
For those that did convert or turn apostate would mean that they did not listen to the "channel of communication that God is using" and/or did not see that their dedication "requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings" as taught by their spiritual leaders at that particular time, to use a WT phrase....and were thus "promptly expelled."
You also mentioned about the first century cong. This same argument more or less still applies...as any organization can theoretically say "we are the chosen, and if there are errors, wait for God to straigten it out".
If you followed that line you should still be in whatever religion you started in.
As a side note, however this plays out, I find it very "sad" and utterly unbeleivable that it has come to this. Especially since at one time I truly felt it could do no wrong.
Just wanted to reply in JW-speak.
-just my 2
ShaunaC

While we all hope this will have a major effect on the downfall of the WT, sadly it will probably not. Remember that the Catholic Church has been dealing with this issue for years. While it has shaken the faith of some parishioners, the Catholic Church is far from being dismantled.
The same will unfortunately be true for the WT as well. While this may provide some already doubting JW's the needed push to free themselves from this cult, in reality this is only the first of many steps in the downfall of the Borg.
Believe you me, I would love for this to be more pivitol than it will be. I too know personally of quite a few who were molested as children by elders, pioneers and the like. Interestingly I never knew of it until after I left the Borg. JW Apologists claim that the number Bill qoutes is way out of proportion. Yet I bet that most have people close to them that have been affected by pedophilia...they just don't know it yet. (When my good friend finally went to group therapy 10 years ago while still a JW to deal with molestation at the hand of her father, she was surprised to see 3 or 4 other JW women also there.)
We ex-JW's are prone to get overly excited about stuff like this. We want so badly for our family and friends to take their blindfolds off and see the WT for the destructive cult it is. But I will be ecstatic if even a few wake up to the "truth" because of this issue. It will be a long road. We should all be happy for the little steps because it surely isn't going to happen all in one shot.
Shauna
AlanF

Ah, Schitbolet. Yet another apparently new JW troll/apologist, but not new at all. Under what other monikers have you posted?
The stupidity and disgusting twisting attempts of typical JW apologies and of criticisms of the valid criticisms of critics of JWs is well illustrated by your statement:
: Now AlanF comes up with this beautiful counsel. It seems that he is such a spiritual man and wants you to do the right thing. The truth of the matter is that AlanF does not even believe in God and less the Bible, so let's see that makes him a... oh yeah a hypocrite!
My call to Accuracy was simply this: stick to the principles that you and I agree are good!
You have a problem with that? Obviously your twisted little JW mind is unable to fathom that someone who disbelieves the Bible as a whole can find good things in it, and can encourage someone who believes it to stick to what each acknowledges are good principles. Like most JW apologists, you twist the words of others to your own agenda -- to defend the Watchtower Society no matter the cost in wrecked Christian principles. You've learned well from your Masters how to do this.
AlanF
worf

Francois, Amazing, Metatron, Seeker4, AlanF,
Excellent points and right on target. And BTW Francois, nice illustration. You probably got "G" 's in the TMS on that point. :)
I also feel that the house of cards known as the wts is crumbling and as Francois said, even if it stands for a while, it will eventually fall, and hopefully sooner than later. Wts is doomed.
Look at what their latest mistake of dfing people has already spawned:
Tons of press, newspapers, tv, radio. Two more Tennessee women who have verified that the borg does coverup child molesting.And who knows how many more will come out of the woodwork.It is possible that many more will now see that is worth it to do so.And that even if nothing else, they will at least get their stories heard and printed like these two former jws. And of course all of the other issues mentioned in this thread that show the borg is weakening in ways that it will never recover from.
There are so many who are fighting them even behind the scenes and we are getting bolder and bolder because we realize that justice has to be levied against them.
And their arrogance is another thing that will help to take them down.
Pride is before a crash and the wts will crash hard.
I look forward to the death of the most evil organization on this planet which is the wts.
worf(warrior class)

Bowen Disfellowshipping/Daramsala Salt Works

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