Why don't Born Again Christians include themselves as "Cults"?

by booker-t 41 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Perry

  Cofty,

  All I know is what Christ has done and is doing for me....quite apart from my will power.

  I have been born again since 2004. I experienced the new spirit described in the scriptures. I have done things and experienced things that would have previously been impossible for me. The born again experience is a very real event. It does not happen just because you attend some particular church or not. It is God who ratifies the NT contract with a believer, not some man who baptizes you or delivers sermons on Sunday morning. In any church, there will be a significate number of unsaved people attending - irregardless of their membership status.

  The nature of the new birth is clear in scripture:

  1 John 3: 8b & 9 - For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

  From God's point of view there are three "YOU'S". You have flesh and you are flesh. You are spirit and at the same time you have a spirit. You have a soul and you are a soul.

  The Watchtower makes a big deal out of the phrase "Adam became a living soul", trying to make the argument that Adam was given a soul and was not a soul also. However, other scriptures contridict this materialist view and call "you" (or they) a soul. For example :

  Rev. 6: 9 & 10 - I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

  We use similar interchangableness of terms when talkng about our body. The two following statements still mean "you" even though the words are different:

  1. She pinched my arm.

  2. She pinched me.

  Both statements mean "YOU".

  A person can know that he is born again if he continues to keep God's commandmants AND if he has the internal withness of the Holy Spirit that bares witness with our spirit that we are the Children of God.

  1 John 3: 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

  This is the work of God "not of man, lest anyone should boast". Eph. 2: 8,9

  The born again person experiences a release of the "grip" of sin on his entire being because one of the "YOUs" that constitute his makup is already perfected ..... in this life.

  With these ideas in mind Galatians 5 really comes alive:

  "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

  17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

  18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

  19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

  20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

  21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

  22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

  23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

  24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
• 

  cofty

  As I said - staggering hubris masquerading as humility.

  Perry never does anything wrong - the bible says so.
• 

  designs

  Perry- early christians trusted in Saint Paul.

  Its a cult.
• 

  WTWizard

  First, I view the born-agains as borderline cults. That religion fits right in with fundamentalist xians, and they are quite strict. They do follow the LIE-ble quite strictly. This puts them in the category of high-control religions, and I do not recommend joining them without a great deal of research beforehand. One thing that could define them is how difficult it is to leave the religion once you are fully in--what do they put you through if you try.

  On the other hand, Mor[m]ons, jokehovians, Seventh Day Adventists, Moonies, and Scientologists do impose sanctions against those trying to leave their groups. These are on the other side of the border. I classify these groups as cults, and the jokehovians are getting worse (even as they pretend to be easing up). They adhere more toward the leaders than the LIE-ble, unlike the born-agains. The Mor[m]ons even have their own book. The Seventh Day Adventists came from the same family of cults as the jokehovians--and they refrain from eating meat on certain days of the week, despite no scriptural requirement. I do not recommend this religion.

  Jews are not themselves a cult--any more than Christi-SCAM-ity or Islam are. Judaism is more a platform, and there are many denominations (and cults) within Judaism as within the other two (and even Satanism, which has plenty of cults--often in the form of gangs and people doing abusive sorcery, offering up children or live animals as sacrifices during rituals, and gross self-mutilation). I do not have any respect for any of those three major religions, or anything that plays on the "Satanism" name to grossly abuse animals, torture and maim people, and use abusive sorcery. (Or use fear to prevent people from doing anything with their powers). And even less do I respect religions that claim to be pure xian but are half Jewish or half Muslim, or that trick people into potentially legally binding contracts to serve the god of that religion forever.
• 

  DJS

  Perry,

  I respect you. At least you keep your proseletyzing out of non-theist topics. Your viewpoint nauseates me. But I respect you.
• 

  Band on the Run

  I believe there is a difference between evangelical and born-again Christians. The New York Times reported a very wide range of beliefs and practices among those calling themselves born-again. What bothers me are fundamentalists who judge. Also, discussion is one thing but I hate Christians who preach to me. They know so little compared to me ((I assume their leaders might know more. It is always some idiot who preaches to me) and they follow me around the laundromat or grocery store preaching.

  The last time in the laundromat I was prepared. He asked me what faith I was? I said Christian, not that it is your business. We are here to do laundry. I admitted I was Episcopal and happy when he said Baptist. I told him with a certain tone that our churches had different views of theology and lifestyles. Since you are here, though, tell me the Baptist view of Jesus' messiaship and the son of man tradition., etc. He did his laundry.

  Some born-again church in PA is reviled. Members go up to strangers in stores and asked "What denomination are you?" People respond b/c religion is the number one topic in the area. The social styles of various churches. They reply back that they are Christian. I said bully for you. You just proved that you are not."
• 

  Band on the Run

  A girlfriend and I were talking in the church soon after a lackluster sermon. She was completely sold on the Secret, the Law of Attraction. I viewed it as grossly not Christian. Jesus did not teach a prosperity gospel. The priest was snooping behind us. Next week, the sermon was about how bad the Secret was. She could have waited a few weeks. My friend had to sit through the whole sermon. Oh, Cathy, the priest, even included several examples from our private conversation. She did not convert my friend.
• 

  Band on the Run

  The newspapers and magazines in America always contrast the East Coast main stream religions vs. the rest of the country. People self-identify as born-again. Before Carter was president, East Coast people believed a holy roller dimension. Polling showed that born-again Christians were conservative politically. They did not support moderate GOP candidates but extreme right wingers. I never lived in born-again Christians. You were supposed to experience an interior personal relationship with Jesus that completely made you a new person.

  I don't think the term is in widespread usage in the US anymore. When I read about theology splits, it is fundamentalists that are blamed. There were some progressive born-again Christians. There are fundamentalists on the East Coast but they are rare. I grew up in urban areas with Jews, Hindus, etc.

  I wonder what catagories the Pew Charitable Trust uses. Jimmy Carter discussed his religion during the campaign. I thought born-again meant illiterate. He was clearly literate. I think Bill Clinton had to address it b/c he was from the South. Don't remember.
• 

  villagegirl

  Exactly - Tolerance is what I have found - you voice some view and they

  just agree or disagree and welcome you as a believer. Some evangelicals

  have irritating " Jesus speak" and are always saying "Praise the Lord" or

  "God has a plan for your life" or other repetitive expressions. But many churches

  are generalists, not dogmatic, they recognize Jesus Christ, all take communion or

  partake of the "emblems" as the jw's put it and all feel they all are annointed with

  God's Holy Spirit as a normal part of being believers all together as a body.

  Being born again is not cult like. It means being elevated out of hopelessness to

  joy and freedom and hope, its a moving upward in spirit and in love and in unity

  with mankind and God. The JW's put this ugly meaning on "born again" like it is

  some form of insanity. The JW's leadership, the Governing Body claim only they

  are born again and therefore only they have the holy spirit, that is cult-like.

  God pours out his spirit on "all flesh" as the Bible puts it. Thats everybody.

  Maybe it includes animals, thay are flesh after all. I always sense God's spirit

  in all living things.
• 

  cofty

  Villiagegirl - It's nice that church makes you feel good but the gospel as preached by the early church was very different from your personal version of Jesus.

  You claimed above that it was "not about forgiveness of sins". I had a quick click through the first few chapters of Acts and cited 5 sermons that show it was very much about forgivness of sin and escaping god's wrath. The so-callled gospel is that humans are repugnant to god because of their sin, and that by believing in a human blood sacrifice eternal punishment can be avoided.

  It is an abhorrent message but it's nice that modern humans have rewritten it for the sensitivitites of the 21st century.