by stuckinarut2 55 Replies latest watchtower bible
Hmm. I would actually attempt to read this article that's gotten so much attention, but...I like my blood pressure where it is--nice and stable. Still, it's been interesting to read your comments, folks.
It's incredible. They can literally say 1=2 and have people believe it. This is where the heart of it all resides: it is the literature being studied, not the Bible. The Bible is just there to give the literature a semblance of authenticity.
--sd-7
fine4now: The specific dates don't make sense to me.
That's because they doesn't make sense, ... TO ANYBODY!
It's nonsense.
Welcome to the board.
Thanks for the welcome ;) I can see myself hanging out here quit a bit.
Welcome, fine4now.
Wow. Just wow. This topic is fantastic. There are so many things we could discuss.
It is flippin’ hilarious that you guys are posting from the KH. J I didn’t know they allowed iPads in there. I wonder if that’ll end up biting them in the rear.
I want to talk about a couple of things that have been mentioned. “This generation” and the four horseman of Revelation. I am not going to get much into prophecy like the WT, because *I* will not be responsible for misleading someone if I’m incorrect.
“This generation”…what a joke. Not that it’s in the Bible, but that it has been redefined so many times to cover up the 1914 error. Ahhh, 1914. It sounds like you guys think it’s bogus. Probably for the same reasons I believe it is. The overlapping generations will cover it for a little while, but eventually 1914 will crash and burn. I have no idea at all how the GB will get out from under it since it is THE core doctrine, but eventually, they’ll be forced to find a way. Overlapping generations can surely only last so long since those guys are already “advancing in years”.
What is your opinion of what “this generation” means? This is mine. So Jesus was speaking to them about the signs of the last days. BUT, it was also signs for the destruction of the temple in AD 70. This, like many in the Bible, is a dual prophecy. Once for the temple destruction, a second time for the last days. This dual prophecy involved his first coming, and later on, his second. So what do I personally think this generation means? I think he meant those people, who were there hearing him speak during his ministry, that generation alive then to hear him, would still be alive when the temple was destroyed. What is that? Roughly 40 years. I think the last days “this generation” will be very much the same. I believe the details of 66-70 AD and the temple destruction, down to the abomination of desolation in that time period, are key to understanding the last days and Revelation. So, if you’ve never read anything much about it…it’s quite interesting.
Was there any overlapping generation if Jesus was talking first about the temple? Nah… plenty of people who heard him speak were still around when it happened. Those people in his time didn’t understand that he was talking about 70 AD, they thought it was right then, immediately. The WT saying things are so much worse right now than ever before is simply ludicrous. People have been reading the Bible every century for the last 2,000 years. Given the horrific stuff that has happened throughout the centuries, I’d bet everyone reading the Bible thought it was in their time, and rightfully so, because there was plenty of bad stuff going on. As for the last days, I don’t think it matters so much as to exactly when they start, but that we remain alert and serve God to the best of our abilities, with our whole heart, body, mind and strength, so that when it does come, we’re not screwing up. There are many other prophecies that talk about the last days, mainly in the OT. The WT doesn’t hardly take these things into consideration when they try to teach prophecy or explain Daniel/Revelation...or well, any prophecy. Do I personally believe we are truly in THE last days right now? No. There’s too much prophesied that is still probably at least a little ways off. But that’s my opinion. And I think the WT just doesn’t know what to make of the other prophecies or how to begin explaining them.
Revelation and the Four Horsemen… my grandpa is an elder, has been for 40-50 years or so. I actually asked him about this a few days ago. Revelation 6. WT maintains that Rev. 6:2 depicts Jesus coming on a white horse with a crown, a bow and sent to conquer. What a horrible misinterpretation. Since when is Jesus one of the four horsemen?? So who do we have here in the opening of these seals? War. Famine. Pestilence/Death. And…the false Christs, false prophets, false religions sent with a bow to go out and conquer and mislead as many as possible. The opening of the seals in Revelation compliment Matthew 24. Wars, kingdom against kingdom…sickness, death…famine…earthquakes…and the great misleading false Christs or teachers on a white horse that rise among us. Sure, a lot of this is happening now, but it has in probably every other century too, starting with Jesus’ time. Revelation 19:11-12….THAT is our King Jesus.
It makes me angry and sad when the WT misleads people with false teaching. “New light” should be progressive, expanding on present knowledge. New light isn’t flip-floppy and inaccurate. If new light replaces old light, and the old light is obsolete, it was never true in the first place. I would never believe God would allow that to happen if he had an earthly organization doing his work. Just like, even though the Bible writers were fallible men, I don’t for a second believe the Bible contains errors. Those men were truly inspired by God. If someone actually believes the GB is spirit-directed and then they get so many things wrong, you’d have to question the entire Bible, because its writers were imperfect too.
As always, I urge any of you to please, do not take me at my word here, but go to the Bible and prove all things for yourself.
I’m curious. Do you guys think Jesus returned invisibly in 1914? Or was it when he ascended to heaven? Or has it even happened yet? Will it be invisible? The way the WT teaches, Jesus returned in 1914. Then he returns again for judgment. That’s a 3 rd coming. I don’t find a third coming in the Bible. I also do not believe in an invisible coming. I do love the WT teaching that explains the invisibility, though. It’s based on Acts 1:11. Society teaching is that since it was a quiet ascension, with only the apostles there, that he returns in the same way, with only the faithful even noticing. Wow. You can form your own conclusion on this scripture and also with the ones where Jesus talks about lightning flashing from east to west or however it’s worded. Lightning…quite visible. Physical ascension to heaven…quite visible, he literally ascended. Every eye will see me, even those who pierced me, Jesus says. That’s visible. The ones that pierced him aren’t still alive, obviously. This just means the people like them at his coming…ones that deny Jesus. Personally, I think his rulership as King either began when he ascended to heaven OR it will begin in the great tribulation. He says that all things in heaven and on earth have been given to him. It was all given to him, or will be, because he succeeded in what he was sent to do. He successfully was the perfect, ultimate sacrifice. If he had failed, we would have no hope and he would not be the rightful heir of all things. If the society acknowledged a visible second coming, instead of the invisible 1914, it would prove that the FDS are liars and haven’t actually been chosen. I personally like the ESV version of Matt. 24:45-46. Here’s what I think about who that faithful and wise servant actually is. It’s anyone, like it says, set over his household (church) that is preaching the true gospel message. Happy are those people who are preaching the real gospel when he comes. It ain’t them boys in Brooklyn. (Sorry, I’m a Texan) =) Anyway, Revelation mentions the 144,000 and that the earth cannot be harmed until they are sealed. They’re apparently all on earth at that time (not in heaven with the anointed that are apparently already being resurrected to heaven).
I don’t know if I’m accurate in saying this because I don’t have the book, but if you have the Proclaimers book, you can look it up. Somewhere in there, it says the arrival of Jesus in 1914 became official teaching soon after Rutherford died. Why is that important? If it’s true, Rutherford went to his grave believing Jesus returned invisibly in the 1800s. And of course, the ones “chosen” in 1919, the faithful ones that would notice his arrival….they weren’t watching! In 1914, they too believed it was the 1800s and he was already present. Why would they watch in 1914 if Jesus was already here? What amazing lies they’re passing off as absolute, Jehovah-inspired truth. The Proclaimers book is a gold mine, from what I’ve seen. It shows different pictures of things going on that all these people were doing during that inspection time of 1914-1919. Celebrating Christmas, etc. etc. One picture, if I remember correctly was a big Christmas party in 1926. I think 1926. Anyway, if you have one, it’s gold.
This is me on Yahoo Answers. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140409110729AAAhCXl
I’ve posted quite a few important questions to JWs…baptism, Memorial, etc. Please check them out if you want. If you click on my profile pic, you should be able to get to the rest of them. I’ve tried hard to stay respectful, but several of the very active JWs that have answered have been pretty rude and hateful in defense of their beliefs. I expect that, of course. But ya know…for being the most loving people on earth, some of them sure have a funny way of showing it if you’re not an active witness in good standing. What’s funny is that I posted one quite a few hours ago about “new light” like what I said above. No takers yet. I hope that means I struck a nerve. They jumped on all the other questions immediately.
Don't get into a flap
about the generation overlap
it's just a load of c**p
they pulled it out of a hat
like some magic act
and put it in gift wrap
like some kind of trap
but don't worry, take a nap
it will soon be scrap
and that's that.
Good one!
