A silly thought on freewill...

by new hope and happiness 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Island Man

  I think the concept of freewill is somewhat of a misnomer - at least in the way it is used. Let me explain what I mean.

  JWs would sometimes tell people that Jehovah dignified us all with freewill so we're free to choose whether or not we want to serve him. Used in this context, the JWs are trying to convey the impression that Jehovah is a reasonable God who does not force us to do what we don't want to do.

  But contrary to this intended impression, according to their teaching, Jehovah threatens to destroy everyone who refuses to worship him. So how is the freewill that Jehovah affords us any different to the freewill that an armed robbers affords his victim whom he asks to hand over all his money while a gun is pointed at his head?

  How exactly does a person's freewill dignify him if he is belittled, insulted and destroyed by Jehovah for making a choice that Jehovah does not like? A person's will cannot be free if they're being coerced by the threat of destruction, to make a particular choice.

  And then there's the problem of sin. The bible says that humans can't help but do what is bad even though they want to do what is good. See Romans 7:21-25. So because of the concept of inherited sin and imperfection, every human is to some extent a puppet of sin, forced by his sinful flesh to sin in one form or another every day of his life!

  And then there's the whole concept of the human mind - the seat of our will and desires - being a product of our physical brains which function according to fixed and unchanging laws of physics and wiring of which are determined by our environment. From the moment of birth and without our having any say in it, our brains and hence our minds, personalities and desires started being shaped by our environment. Freewill is just an illusion. Every choice that we make is determined by our environment. There is no ethereal self that is wholely divorced from, and that can make choiced independent of, the physical world. The conscious mind gives us the illusion of free choice. We are unaware of the plethora of physical forces that lead us to make particular "choices".
• 

  new hope and happiness

  yes Island Man..well said.

  We dont even have the freewill to love those we wished to love.
• 

  John_Mann

  You don't need freewill to feel good. In dreams we do not have freewill but we can have pleasant dreams though. The ultimate reality would be a dream with freewill.
• 

  new hope and happiness

  John- Mann: I oftern found my dreams were based on my state of mind before sleep.

  To my understanding we spent most of our sleep dreaming dreams we dont remember when we awake.

  Maybe i have freewill in my dreams.
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  James Brown

  I see what is being said about free will.

  I have said it myself many times.

  But if we go down the path of logical thinking and humans being shaped by their enviroment.

  Then Hitler could not have helped being Hitler and killers were and are destined to kill.

  After having read the bible independently cover to cover 7 times. I personally found a predominant theme of the

  bible was predestination.

  Predestination is the antitheisis of free will.

  But another theme I found in the bible

  is the bible says something for everybody.
• 

  snare&racket

  Everything in the universe interacts in some way, all living things require some form of energy provision.

  Out bodies are run on cell engines not too different to your car. Sugar (fuel) and air in, water and CO2 out, internal combustion!

  Our energy comes from the turning of turbines, ATPase in our mitochondria. So it isnt about free will, it is all about the laws of thermodynamics and energy transfer.

  However, free will is an amazing topic and I highly reccomend you read up on determinism.
• 

  John_Mann

  It's very rare to have some control in dreams, but sometimes we can experience lucid dreams.
• 

  ballistic

  I believe the theory goes that the reason we don't have free will is that we are the product of genes and our environment. But the point I was making is that, as quantum mechanics predicts, you cannot measure both the speed and position of a particle, our internal view of the world is only ever a construct, and not real in any sense. Therefore, we have control over what the environment is we see. And this is true on many levels.
• 

  Band on the Run

  We can do a whole lot to change the aging process. First, there are things we can to do to hasten aging, such as smoking and eating unhealthy food. Obesity changes aging/death. Access to medical care makes a big difference. I go to the Met museum a lot. When I visit the Costume Institute, people are so tiny. Grown women are about the size of a doll. Stress will mess up proper aging. On the other hand, not smoking, not driving, eating healthy food, etc. extends life.

  With the aging of the baby boomers, biological tests are being run to see what supplements might help.

  The government, federal, state, and local makes a big difference in how items are regulated, whether certain people are insured.

  Public service announcements play a role.

  I notice that people no longer see fat people as jolly. More and more the message is that I don't want to pay for your poor choices.

  Personally, I don't believe in free will. I am away from those religious terms. Humans had no choice in the Bible. An omnipotent God should have known what would happen. Well, I won't rant.

  I found adding the scripture not very wise. If we were a bunch of Hindus, it would make sense. Jewish people know this story. Also, it was read at Prince Charles and Lady Diana's wedding by the Archbishop of Canterbury.
• 

  stuckinarut2

  WT Freewill defined:

  'you are free to do whatever you like...as long as it is exactly what we allow you to do or direct you to do, then you are free to do it...but if you do something outside of that, then we are free to punish you and we will tell god to smite you at the big A'

  But yes...you have free will....just like North Koreans have the free will to choose to get the state approved hair-cuts...or die...good choices really!!!