607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

by objectivetruth 43 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  objectivetruth

  Hi Everyone,

  I'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the Destruction of Jerusalem..

  I'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather I'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.

  What is your view on relying on the Cyrus Cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction..

  I know that there are MANY other factors.. But I'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so I'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the Cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607

  One other question.. Is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?
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  objectivetruth

  The first period of seventy years spanned from 606 BC until 537 BC, known as the Babylonian Captivity. The second period of 70 years came 19 years later from 587 BC until 518 BC, which was known as the period of Jerusalem’s Desolation's . On the 9th of Av 587 BC, the Temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar.

  From what I have found.. This is an accurate statement. Agree?
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  Over%forme

  No, I disagree because Babylon fell in 539

  and had World Power for 70 years Add 70 to

  539=609. The last two to rule(J and Z) together

  had 22years(11 years apiece) 22 from 609=587.

  We agree only on 587.
• 

  AnnOMaly

  What is your view on relying on the Cyrus Cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction. ...

  ... I'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the Cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607

  You cannot rely on the Cyrus Cylinder to prove or disprove 607 BCE as the date of Jerusalem's destruction. It is undated and tells how Cyrus conquered Babylon, got rid of incompetent Nabonidus and brought peace and religious harmony to the land, etc.

  You have to go to other sources to derive any dates. The Nabonidus Chronicle indicates Babylon fell in Nabonidus' year 17. Astronomical texts anchor dates for certain kings' years and other kings' years can be derived from kings' lists. Babylon fell in 539 BCE as Over%forme said.

  Next you have to determine what the prophesied '70 years' relate to. Jeremiah consistently relates them to a period of Babylonian domination over the nations including Judah (Jer. 25:8-12; Jer. 29:10 - '70 years for Babylon'). The Babylonians were defeated in 539 BCE, therefore their domination of the nations ceased in that year (2 Chron. 36:20, 21; Jer. 25:12).

  The first period of seventy years spanned from 606 BC until 537 BC, known as the Babylonian Captivity.

  The '70 years' could be a rounded number (Nineveh fell in 612 BCE; 605 BCE was the battle of Carchemish, defeating the Egyptians, and Babylon swept down taking Palestine) or can literally fit from 609 BCE when the last king of Assyria was defeated and the last Assyrian stronghold, Harran, was razed to the ground. The Babylonians had hegemony over the nations from that point. 609 BCE to 539 BCE = 70 years for Babylon.

  The second period of 70 years came 19 years later from 587 BC until 518 BC, which was known as the period of Jerusalem’s Desolation's . On the 9th of Av 587 BC, the Temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar.

  We agree on the year of Jerusalem's destruction. The Temple wasn't finished until Adar 517 BCE (Ezra 6:15) so yes, the Temple was desolate for 70 years.

  You're looking for another Bible chronology/prophetic 'Gentile times' fit with Israel's independence, aren't you? There'll be a whole lot of scriptural hopping, skipping, jumping and eisegesis to find one but good luck!
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  wizzstick

  The first period of seventy years spanned from 606 BC until 537 BC

  But that is wrong as it contradicts the Bible. As AnnoMaly points out, you have Jeremiah 25:12 where it says:

  “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·de′ans a desolate wasteland for all time.

  When did Cyrus overpower Nabonidus?

  539BCE.

  So how can the king of Babylon (Nabonidus) be called to account when the 70 years are fulfilled, given that by 537 he had been overpowered for some 2 years. The 70 years have to finish in 539 to fulfill Jeremiah 25:12.

  Jer 25:12 is the big Biblical hole in the WT argument.
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  wizzstick

  Two other points:

  But I'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible

  I strongly suggest you read The Gentile Times Reconsidered. It goes into depth and, frankly, it may be a nice idea to keep the research simple as possible, but it's only by going in depth you realise that Neo-Babylonian chronology is clearly established by physical evidence from that time period. Cuneiform tablets, the House of Egibi records and so on. You just can't argue with a picture painted by 10,000s of pieces of evidence.

  Is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?

  The seond point to grasp is that you need to go back to the beginning of this whole idea of when the Appointed Times of the nations begins (which is the whole reason we are skulking about 100s of years BCE).

  Re-read Luke 21: 20-24:

  20 “However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de′a begin fleeing to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her, 22 because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

  Everything in Luke 21: 20-24 is written in future tense (see in bold above). So Jesus, talking in 33CE, was talking of future events. There is nothing to suggest that the last part re Jerusalem had actually started hundreds of years before. If so Jesus would have said, "and Jerusalem is being trampled on by the nations...", or "and Jerusalem will continue to be trampled on by the nations...".

  It's just an (old) interpretation of scripture that doesn't bare up to scrutiny, particularly given the future tense the whole passage was written in.
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  objectivetruth

  Anomaly & All others,

  Wow! Thank you so. Uch for your input, I can see that you have all spent a lot of time on this.

  I will check out gentile times reconsidered..

  one other question, does any one feel that Daniel 11:21-45 possibly applies to Nazi Germany and Hitler during ww2?
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  AnnOMaly

  The official link ---> Gentile Times Reconsidered.

  No, I do not think Dan. 11:21-45 could refer to Nazi Germany and Hitler. At least part of the section most likely applies to Antiochus IV Epiphanes (ruled 175 - 164 BCE). Dan. 11:36 onward is understood to refer to the distant future. A conservative interpretation can be found HERE.
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  johnamos

  http://johnamos880.wordpress.com/2014/04/12/70-years-2/
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  Crazyguy

  Like was posted earlier Haran the last major city of Assyria was destroyed in 609 making Jeremiah chapter 25 exaclty 70 years. Also there are literally thousands of documents found in the near east that state Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 . Also if you loo at the kings list of Babylon it will show Jerusalem destroyed in 587 , you can even find it in the insight books by the jws if you do your own math and not let them tell you what the math says.