144000 Literal or Figurative? (page 2)

greendawn

Yes Wolfman and it makes sense, this is either entirely literal or entirely symbolic !!

sir82

How can the society change the 144,000 to figurative without blowing themselves out of the water?

Let's just re-word that a bit to see if it helps....

How can the society change the "generation" that Jesus spoke about at Matthew 24:34 into "2 overlapping groups of anointed", and stretch the meaning of the word out to 150 or so years, without blowing themselves out of the water?

Ooops! They already did that.

Trust me, if they just throw about 800 words around 3 or 4 out of context scriptures, they will be able to change anything.

Crazyguy

If they can get the rank and file to believe in the overlapping generation thing, what are we on now 4,5 they'll believe any line of bull.

TTATTelder

It really is sad. These people WANT to believe something. Anything.... to not have to face the scary world out there.

They will swallow whatever the GB serves up. It's an emotional thing not a rational one.

leaving_quietly

They can say the 144,000 is a literal number but could also say something along the lines of:

We used to believe that only the 144,000 were part of "the Israel of God." (Gal 6:16) However, after carefully reconsidering this, we clearly see that while the 144,000 are indeed anointed, that doesn't mean that only the 144,000 are spiritual Israelites. Revelation 7 tells us that 12,000 were taken out of each tribe of Israel, thus indicating that spiritual Israel has a much greater number than just 144,000. We now understand that all of the anointed 144,000 and the great crowd are considered part of "the Israel of God."

I could see this as a slow introduction of all being anointed, possibly eventually using 1 John 5:5-12 as evidence that an anointed one has a "witness within himself."

objectivetruth

Within the Body of Christ - (Gentile Christians) It would not make sense to have 2 Classes, seeing that they all have Jesus as their Ransom, and their Requirements of faith are all the same, although Due Credit may be given to Christians that have ben Beheaded and or Martyred.

However Jews come through the Seed of Abraham, and seeing that Many Jews Rejected Jesus, and turned to Worshiping False Gods, it Absolutely makes Sense that "144,000" would be Elected & Receive special Treatment, those that did not Reject Jesus, and have remained Faithful to YHWH and Yeshua.

You can get an idea for this concept here :

Romans 11:7 " What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,"

Romans 11:11 - " So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous."

Romans 11:16 - " If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches."

11:18 -"do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you."

11:20 "They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith."

11:28 - " As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers."

11:29 - " For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

objectivetruth

With this in Mind, I do not feel that 144,000 has to be Literal.

The number twelve speaks of governmental perfection or rule.

1000 has the same meaning as 100 and as 10. Because 1000=10x10x10, and 100=10x10. The meaning is COMPLETENESS of God's plan.

14 is the double of 7, which implies Biblical perfection.

The fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover, when God delivered the firstborn of Israel from death. Some 430 years earlier, on the night of the 14th day of the first month, God made two covenant promises to Abraham — one of the physical seed, Isaac, and his descendants, and one of the spiritual seed, Jesus Christ, and the sons of God who would come through Him, who would shine like the stars of heaven (Matthew 13:43). On the day portion of the 14th, God confirmed the promises with a special covenant sacrifice.

objectivetruth

Greendawn - Could the " male and virginal undefiled by women." be relating to Gentiles that have not been Defiled by the Woman Babylon the Great, The Great Harlot?

undercover

How can they change without blowing themselves out of the water?

lets take this slow...

it's...a... C. U. L. T.

RubaDub

How can they change without blowing themselves out of the water?

You may recall that there was a service meeting part about the importance of the Home Book Study, the ability to get to know our brothers better, the ability for all to comment, etc.

Less than a year later, the Home Book Study was gone.

Rub a Dub

144000 Literal or Figurative?

Share this