Why did Jesus tell the convict on the cross next to his, that he would be joining him in Heaven TODAY??

by Faithful Witness 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Faithful Witness

  Maybe a silly question, but I'm curious about this part of the story of Christ's crucifixion, when the 1 thief challenges Jesus to save himself and "us too" from their deaths, but the 2nd thief rebukes him and pleads with Jesus...

  Luke 23:42-43: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

  Since Jesus took this guy with him to heaven immediately, would he be considered "annointed" and qualified to sit as a judge with Christ, even though he was a criminal who "deserved" the death penalty?

  Why would this admitted thief be worthy of going to heaven immediately after death, but now everyone else (believer and non-believier alike) who dies just lies dead in the ground until judgment day?

  Wouldn't this suggest that there might be either an immortal soul, or that true believers might actually be in heaven with Jesus right now? Forgive me if I'm missing some detail here... correct me where I am misunderstanding this part of the story.
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  Laika

  Are you talking about the JW understanding? I'm a little confused because you referenced the anointed, JWs believe this guy is going to be in paradise earth, and they say Jesus statement about 'today' means that Jesus was saying he was making this promise that day, not that he's giving the convict the benefits of the promise that day.
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  galaxie

  Definately a case of crossed purposes. I wouldn't stake my life on either outcome !
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  FlyingHighNow

  According to JWs, it's all in the placement of the comma.
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  emeth

  one thing is certain... Jesus himself was not in heaven when he was dead. So either he was a liar or he did not meant the same day.
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  Laika

  one thing is certain... Jesus himself was not in heaven when he was dead. So either he was a liar or he did not meant the same day.

  Meh, as often JWs miss the obvious part of Jesus statement here. Jesus told the criminal 'You will be with me'. So either he was a liar or he did not mean a paradise earth.
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  Band on the Run

  The comma has existed for thousands of years. I recall reading historical explanations. Jews believed in a ressurection of the body, not flying around in heaven. Perhaps Jesus never said it. There is a lot of scholarly literature on this verse. It does not make sense when viewed with other statements. I liked the statement. If you want to see hundreds of articles, use Google Scholar.
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  villagegirl

  The comma was not used until Byzantine times.

  Sentence punctuation was invented several centuries

  after the time of Christ.
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  kaik

  Punctuations into the Bible was standarized by St. Jerome during his translation of Bible into Vulgata. They were not standarized until much later, most likely during medieval times when monks copied books in monastery. Romans used punctation for end of the text, probably appearing around time of Cicero. It is most unlikely that there was puncation in NT text to begin with.

  So the text was probably like this without comma.

  And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
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  Rattigan350

  Jesus was dead for the rest of that day, then Saturday, until Sunday morning. Jesus was not in any paradise.

  Thus he could not tell anyone "today you will be with me in paradise"

  KJV and its derivitives mess it up.

  Villagegirl, what is your point?

  Jesus was dead later that day. Why do people bank on words? As if words mean something.