WTS answers Diane Wilson, author (page 4)

Reborn2002

Cygnus-

Now that you have clarified your stance Cygnus it is indeed a matter of opinion, and as such per Simon's rules not to flame someone, I will retract my statement which was deragatory.

You are correct in that the WTS has very slyly never actually used the word INSPIRED. Alas, to time and again call themselves a prophet.. by the very definition of the term prophet.. is that NOT inspired?

Now.. as you said previously:

But who am I or who is Reborn or anyone else to put words in their mouths or redefine their own definitions of what they claim to be?
Reborn's point of view is not categorically wrong, he is simply a little overzealous in finding ways to apply his criticism.

Apply your own words.

Who are you to call me overzealous? Like our fellow poster D8TA here I have discarded the "Live and let live" ideology.. for when an organization purposely divides families and destroys lives one is NOT overzealous in lashing back and exposing their corruption.

Furthermore, I made no reference to evidence of my own accord, but posted verifiable documents from their own literature. Angry? Yes. Informed? Yes. Zealous? Yes. Overzealous? You aint seen nothing yet.

Did I call you a name? Yes. I hold no quarter for any person.. self-perceived clout or not on an Internet discussion board (rolls eyes at the thought) who makes rationalization and apologetic statements for a fringe group which you know as well as I is dangerous and harmful to adults and CHILDREN alike.

Forgive me if I got caught up in my own passion, for I readily admit I am a passionate person on this subject matter. Having once been a JW yourself I am sure to some extent you can understand my position.

Alas, to set an example for others here and to do what would be the proper course of action, I will submit my apology to you for any profane remarks directed at your personal character, and accept your opinion for exactly what it is.. an opinion. I will respect your perspective and beliefs, just as I would expect you to honor mine. At the very least that is something as exJW's we have the freedom to do.

Cheers and well wishes,

Jason

Will Power

Hope you don't mind if I jump in with 2 cents...

For instance, that 1967 Watchtower says that only Jehovah's organization can properly interpret the Bible. That does not equate with your allegation that the Watchtower is more important than the Bible. Do you see the difference?

So if you have the bible but not the org, where are you? Russell says in the dark. [after 2 years] But if you have the org and no bible at all where are you? Russell says in the light. [and it will keep getting brighter and brighter]
This mentality has prevailed throughout their history.
Conclusion?: WT believes that their literature is more important than the bible.
Elders believe that their literature is more important during judicial meetings, disfellowshipments, because their "peculiar" doctrines are not found in the bible. Loyalty to the org is more important than bible truth. So since a club member dedicated themselves to the org which includes things "particular" to the group, the WT literature is what is needed to punish or kick someone out. They have a special secret book for this purpose, since the bible is inadequate.
[It is also these queer doctrines that get someone into the JCs in the first place]

The 1983 Watchtower says that association and servitude with the organization is essential for salvation. That is because the organization teaches the truth _from the scriptures_. You have it backwards. Now, if the Society came out with a new Bible, or added to the Bible, a la the Latter-Day Saints, then perhaps you'd have an argument. As it stands you do not.

What do you call the NWT? It is not a Holy Bible. It is their own interpretation of the scriptures, hence the title NEW WORLD [order] Translation!
And see above for how they feel about their literature over the bible.
The bible is only a reference tool for hopscotch quotes to back up their own version of themselves and their goals.

Cygnus

Reborn,

Your name is Jason too? Sheesh! No wonder we didn't get along.

Will,

I see no reason to criticize the WT for its use of literature. The Bible is a tough book to understand all on its own. I don't see anyone criticizing the church fathers for their immense volumes of biblical explanation.

And, the NWT is a very good translation (not a version).

Will Power

the WT inserts [words in brackets] their own interpretations where verses conflict with their particular theology.

Cygnus

Will,

Have you read the Society's reasons for doing so, or are you just trusting what you read on some opposer's website?

Will Power

Why do you assume that is only opposers stuff I read?

Would you like to come over and look at the library of Society stuff that I read? If they print it they must mean what they say.
Why is is that any time I quote something [whole articles] of something that the society has printed, I am accused of reading apostate material!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot make the type large but if I could I WOULD BE MAKING THAT LAST SENTENCE VERY LARGE!!!
Do you get it?
It is there own material that people quote!!!!
THERE IS NO MIS QUOTING GOING ON
APOSTATES DO NOT PRINT THIS STUFF!!!!!!

You can be loyal all you want, make excuses til the cows come home but it does not change one word. In the morning it is the same story!!!!!!!

I don't CARE what their reasons are, they print it, they mean it, that is who they are.

saltiest

In response to Cygnus:

I was raped and stalked by a man that was not a Witness and yet I was treated with nothing but contempt and distrust. First, I'll never understand why my mom felt the need to send me to the elders, even after I'd talked to the police (that was tramatic enough). Second, what gave the elders the right to ask me what I was wearing, did I scream, what was the color of the guy's underwear, etc.? They had no right to put me through such an inquisition like they did. I am surprised I walked out of that back room without being disfelloshipped. I honestly think if it was a brother that had done those things to me some action would've been taken...against me.

These elders think it is "their duty" to pry into these things even when it is not a matter of the congregation. I only went to the meeting with these elders because I mistakingly thought they would act as counselors. Fat chance, and I wish I had never walked in that room.

So you can believe all you want about it being okay for them to ask the things they ask, but I think it is pure bs.

Alicia

deddaisy

alicia, they say that the treatment a victim receives after a rape or molestation can sometimes do as much damage as the rape itself.

the elders asking you "what you were wearing," sounds like the article in last week's "Tennessean." The elder asked the victim "what she was wearing" also. She said she'll never forget it because she was EIGHT YEARS OLD......

morrisamb

Alicia, I am with you 100%. Time for a reality check. I think one of the worst post traumatic experiences for victims (other than a possible trial) is sitting in front of 3 men who know diddly squat about trauma. For female victims, any 3 women in the world would be better than 3 men. That seems like a no-brainer. Probably one of the top 5 worst experiences of my life. Just know you are not alone and that your feelings and instincts are dead on.

deddaisy

I don't mean to be jumping in the middle of a debate, but I couldn't pass by Cyg's comment:

"I don't see anyone criticizing the church fathers for their immense volumes of biblical explanation."

you're right, noone except the Watchtower Society.....

WTS answers Diane Wilson, author

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