Mom is coming over tomorrow. What should I ask?

by Faithful Witness 19 Replies latest jw experiences

  • sarahsmile
    sarahsmile

    Hope you can build bonds without mentioning doctrines they can flame the fire!

    I had a big laugh about the last Baptist church and donations. I went to a city church that does not state but one time they are Baptist conference. Mainly do good for the community and help each other through church groups. Passing the donation plate during good Friday just seemed greedy but they said it was going to go for the poor!

    Anyhow, years ago I went to one assembly and I watch how people donated money! Arrogance, many would walk up to the boxes looking over their shoulders just to see who was watching them. Like an odd self pride. After paying attention I thought passing the plate was not so bad! e

    Wish you the very best.

  • Spectre
    Spectre

    @nonjwspouse- That was my first inclination but I wasn't sure.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    The Russian Orthodox Church a few blocks from surprised me. The amount of money you contributed last week became part of this week's program. They recorded fifty cents. I wasn't raised in the church so I had no idea how widespread the practice is. It was public shaming. Purchases of candle tapers were noted.

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    where they will be asking members to make commitments for monthly monetary donations

    When will this be announced?

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Hey FW, any update? Did your Mom make it?

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    This is a long post... but here is a recap of issues my mom brought up during her short visit today.

    My mom came at lunchtime, and stayed way past bedtime. She likes to spend the night, but had promised my dad she would be back last night. Today, they are cleaning the KH, and she tries not to miss those weeks. From her comments, I get the impression that she doesn't go most other Saturdays. She actually makes plans with her family (her brother or her sister).

    I think my mom has a LOT she really wants to talk about, but it was hard to talk seriously, as the kids were really craving her attention too.

    Things did not go as expected. I think she has a lot on her mind, and clearly wanted to talk about it. She seems pretty conflicted within herself. I'm not sure how to help her, without looking like an antagonist.

    Within 30 minutes of arriving, she asked me, "Have the Witnesses been back again?" I told her about Miss K and how we had talked about the slave for 3 hours, and that they had never answered my question. She made the comment, "maybe this will be a better fit for you, than your last teacher...?" I didn't correct her, but did say that it was a better fit, if Miss K is going to be willing to answer my questions about the organization.

    I made some errors, when I started telling her about what happened with Mr. Talkalot. She wants me to give her the date of an article we had questioned. She seems to think she can find it in the library at the KH. I will have to look it up, but it was a magazine, whose cover had a big headline about 1975.

    She already "knew all about" 1975. I hadn't prepared for this one, and forgot where the warning about the false prophet appeared in the scriptures. I just made the comment that anyone claiming to speak for God, makes a prophecy that does not come true, they have revealed themselves as a false prophet. You should not follow them or fear them. I quickly changed the subject (seed planted). If anyone knows which article or magazine I am talking about, I would appreciate the help. She wants to see it.

    She told me about the propaganda video that they had seen, promoting the upcoming International Convention in Detroit, MI. She said they had gone and videotaped the venue (Ford Fieldhouse), and had done their best to cast the plans for the event in a positive light. She said, "After the video was over, I just thought to myself... that just looked like a bunch of hype." The society continues to badger and coerce them, telling them they really NEED to be at this convention, whether they like Detroit or not. She expressed her own concerns about safety at this event.

    My parents and sister already have their hotel booked, and they seem to be most stressed now about parking. My brother in law is an MS (new development), and says that the local congregations are trying to stake claims for the better parking structures. She was talking about how much trouble the society had gone through, to book an event for 40-45,000 people!!

    She expressed concern, that they were going to be handing out invitations to the "general public" for this event. I think she is worried that someone from the world is going to come and attack them. "Who knows what could happen? They could say, OH! Here is a big group of 45,000 JW's..." I interjected with "Or LESS!!! hahaha" She laughed.

    My sister went to Detroit recently, with the intention of "checking out" the area... big mistake. I think they are also now concerned. Detroit is not somewhere I would like to visit as a weekend tourist.

    I think the most revealing things she said, were about her own inner conflicts. When we were alone in the car for a brief time, she started talking about something she has not mentioned before. She said, "Everyone really should know that we are Jehovah's Witnesses." I didn't know what she meant, so I waited silently for her to continue her thought. She told me about a person she works with, who did not realize she was a JW. He mentioned Christmas, and then another of her coworkers started whispering to him about JW's and holidays. She was not sure whether to be offended that they were talking about her beliefs, or ashamed that she had not been spreading the TRUTH at work, and everywhere she goes.

    She went on to talk about my dad, and how he "puts on a big show at the KH. I guess we all do, really..." but then he expressed concern about my mom's brother's upcoming visit. My uncle came over last Saturday, and my dad was saying he should stay home and not go out in service. My mom reassured him that she was able to entertain her brother until he got home (and would prefer it that way). He then asked her, "Does he even know we are JW's??" and he was worried and possibly embarrassed. He didn't want to arrive home, wearing a business suit, on a Saturday afternoon, and make his brother in law wonder what was going on... She looked at me and said, "Isn't that WEIRD???" I let her repeat herself a couple of times, while she rolled that idea around in her head, and I tried to think of how to respond.

    "Sort of weird, but I can understand it. It sounds like he is conflicted within himself. His natural personality is battling with his new personality. He didn't become a JW, until his mid-60's, and now he is being told he has to have a new personality. He sounds confused."

    My mom interjected with "Yeah! Raised as a Baptist!"

    I was glad that she had brought up my dad. He has really lost his way in life. She sees the hypocrisy, since she lives with him and knows that he hasn't changed his ways as much as he presents himself to the JW's. She can see that his JW persona is fake and forced. She feels the same way about herself, but we were able to talk about it more freely, when it was about him. Later, I did ask her if she thought he was getting senile. haha.

    My other niece is having a choir recital this Tuesday. My sister won't be coming, since the concert will be inside a church. I asked Mom if she and Dad were coming. She said they were. She said, "I'm not as strict about some of the things that others are." I asked what was wrong about going into a church for an event, and she said, "You know, it's false religion. We are told to keep out, not go into Babylon." I asked her, "Do you believe that?" She said, "No." I asked what was going to happen if they stepped into a church building. "Is it the building?" I challenged her a little on this one, and dropped it.

    She ended up staying much later than she had planned (as usual... she never wants to leave!) :) As we were standing around talking before she left, I wanted to be sure she was going to stay awake for her drive home. An opportunity arose to say something that has been bothering me for about 3 years.

    Me: "Are you going to stay awake for the drive home?"

    Mom: "Don't worry, I always stay up late."

    Me: "But you're not out driving around in the dark!"

    Mom: "How do you know??" :) joke yay

    Me: "Well, you're not out driving on unfamiliar country roads..."

    Mom: "Maybe I am..." another joke

    Me: "Not by our house! If you're driving past our house, I would hope you'd at least stop in and say hello!"

    Mom: blank

    My 7-year old daughter, who was listening: blank, open-mouth stare, although subtle... she knew what I was saying

    Explanation: My parents live about 65 miles away, but their assembly hall happens to be 5 miles from my house. Our road is the direct route to the Holt Ass Hall. They don't miss assemblies, but we never see them. We make comments like, "I wonder if they hold their breath while they drive past our property." She has postponed visits to see us, because she "forgot" that this week was the assembly.

    My mom did not have a reply to that remark, but reassured us that she would stay awake all the way home.

    Based on many of the topics that came up during this visit, I feel like it would be a good time to arrange some time when I can be alone with my mom for awhile. She has a lot on her mind, and I would love to hear what she is thinking, and give her an outlet to express her doubts and questions.

    She mentioned that their good friends had been transferred to a different KH, and they don't see them anymore. I asked her, "So, who do you hang out with?" She said she didn't. I asked her a couple of times if she had any "buddies" at the KH. She said, "not really." She used to hold her friends and relationships in high regard, so I'm wondering if she will think about how it used to be.

    I am going to try to be more of a friend to her. I have to figure out the logistics, and how to get time with her, without ignoring the kids. She seemed to really want to talk, more than play with the kids this time. She is stressed.

    I do want to ask her about the program for the international convention, and to look over the topics with her.

    I didn't end up talking about the Baptist church asking us to fill out pledge slips. I did tell her that we were doing "home church" with friends who agreed that there was no church who taught the truth.

    Sorry this was so long... but maybe someone can relate to something. Any ideas of things I can say to help her through this, and possibly move her in a direction away from the control the WTS has over her life, would be appreciated.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    FW said: I am going to try to be more of a friend to her. I have to figure out the logistics, and how to get time with her, without ignoring the kids. She seemed to really want to talk, more than play with the kids this time. She is stressed.

    FW, this is a good strategy. I never got baptized as a JW but come hell or high water, I was doggedly determined to maintain whatever connection and relationship I could with my folks. I made an effort to be in contact with them and visit them even though I knew it would be tough (since the JW topic always came up). I would kindly counter any crap they tried to foist on me. I was always honest with them about stuff that didn't add up but tried not to be judgmental. But I would not let them run rough shod over me either. Establishing boundaries with people is important. A few times they were downright antagonistic, snarky, and mean. I stayed calm and rational. They were the ones coming off as fundie.

    I always tried to interject fun and laughter into the communication and visits. Make it enjoyable because one day, your Mom will no longer be here.

    My Mom has been dead now for 12 years. I miss her. My Dad has dementia and is in a nursing home. I visit him weekly and try to get him to laugh during our visits. I always make sure I smile at him and tell him I love him. I try to keep things positive.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi Faithful Witness, You did great!!

    You may have a plan for your Mom's visits, but the most important things are to listen to what your mother is saying/trying to say, to ask your Mom simple questions, to pause and let your Mom think about what she just said, and to either ask your Mom what she meant or to get her to repeat something that she just said that sounds strange to her. Your mother has doubts and fewer friends at her KH, which is good news to help her ctrically think for herself.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    It is a process, and one you seem to have well in hand, especially creating time alone with your mom, and a safe space in which she can unload and process her thoughts, concerns and issues, without feeling manipulated, pressured or threatened.

    If and when the time is right, you may want to direct simple questions toward your mom's main blind spot, namely the whole gospel, especially according to Paul.

    For example:

    Mom, I have a few questions I would like to ask you about the "good news" in the Watchtower library (on computer or on the internet). Please can you let me know if and when you are able to set a day or two aside for this?

    Are you a "publisher of the good news"?

    How long have you been a "publisher of the good news"?

    Is it true that the (Watchtower) Bible refers to "good news" around 152 times?

    Is it true that more than half these are by Paul?

    So what is the "good news" according to Paul?

    How many times does Paul mention "good news"? (85 times)

    How many times does Paul mention "good news" and "Kingdom" in the same sentence? (zero times)

    Why?

    Copy & paste whole link: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=%22good+news%22&fc[]=bi

  • Listener
    Listener

    You are such a loving daughter faithful witness, it's great that you are in a position to be able to help her, it has been well worth the study you've put in.

    "My brother in law is an MS (new development), and says that the local congregations are trying to stake claims for the better parking structures" They really are no better than anyone else but I would think the elders themselves are behind this display of greediness.

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