Belief in the inerrant truth of the Bible demands a cult-like mindset: Whatever my god does is true, justified and correct; whatever your god does is evil and designed to corrupt and mislead. Little wonder groups like Jehovah's Witnesses use "Holy Scripture" to sanction their patriarchally authoritarian mindset.
Bible Atrocities
by Trapped in JW land 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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LisaRose
I remember hearing these incidents being explained to me, it was all based on the fact that they were judgements from God, thus righteous. But many people do horrible acts in the name of God, it's not an excuse. These things were horrible acts, I believe they were only attributed to God as justification. It was a war, they won, they did what they wanted, including rape and murder, then blamed God because they knew it looked bad.
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Cold Steel
Many of you seek to judge God from a distance, knowing nothing of the circumstances that existed in the days of Moses. Certainly, if God was not leading the Israelites in the desert, one can make the case that one ancient people were slaughtering another ancient people to get their property, women and land. But what do you know about the Midianites, their practices or their religion? Were the attacks on them unprovoked? And, if so, why would the Lord require their blood from Israelite hands?
Actually, the heathen Midianites practiced infanticide through ancient rites of murder, heating up ovens in the shapes of their gods and sacrificing their infants by placing them in the furnaces and beating their drums so loud as to drown out their cries. They also engaged in the most profligate of orgies as part of their religion. Thus, in most cases, infants and virgins (who had not taken part in these rites) were spared, while men were put to death.
Who is their judge, but Yahweh? The deaths of the wicked weren't arbitrary acts of barbarity on the parts of the Israelites, but the judgments of a just God. But what if you don’t buy into that? What if they did commit evil by ruthlessly murdering the occupiers of the lands they wanted? If that’s the case, then there was no God leading them. And if their God didn’t exist, nor does exist, who sets the moral standards for the universe? Since there’s no punishment of the wicked, there’s no reward for the righteous. Both sides in the battles were simply victories or defeats, and it mattered not who did what to whom, because there’s no eternal arbiter.
God was very specific on how to treat these other peoples, and the Midianites themselves broke a treaty with Moses that ended in their demise. The biggest problem is trying to judge God from a very far distance, not knowing anything about the situation.
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HowTheBibleWasCreated
I have put forth the argument that while every teenager should read the bible ..like shakespeare or plato etc Education and Culture>>> Children should not read it!
Here is my playlist why not and i've just started. I haven't even gotten to Numbers 31 yet. lol
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfbxB0kKayCSW-NVdDGtGWHN83MSGFDmi
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talesin
A friend and I were discussing just the other day, the story of Job.
I think it is one of the most telling stories of abuse. There's good old Job. So, Jehovah and Satan are sitting around, bragging about how powerful they are, and decide upon a wager. "Hey, Satan! Tell you what I'm gonna do. I'll give you my devoted slave, Job, and you can torture him, abuse him in any way you want, and if you can break him, you win! If you can't, I win! What do you say to that?" "Hell, yah, Jah! That sounds like good old demonic fun!"
So, poor, loyal Job, gets tortured and yadda yadda yadda, just to satisfy the Big Guy's ego. How cruel is that? Kinda like the plantation owner wagering with his 'overseer'......... *puke* on all levels
Edit: Oh, so then we had a good rant about how the b'Org used (in my day) slave terms ... overseer, field service, etc. I love my never-been-JW friends!
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cofty
Cold Steel - Stop making a fool of yourself. The bible boasts about the way Yahweh's army specifically murdered thousands of women and children.
They also kidnapped virgins for forced marriage/rape.
The fact that you would defend that is repugnant.
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Cold Steel
Cofty, your ignorance continues to completely baffle me. The scriptures never boasted of any such thing. The virgins and infants I view as being liberated from a horrifying future in profligate cultures. Of course the Israelites married them.
BTW, ever read about Carthage and how it killed infants by the tens of thousands? Then for some reason the Romans came and wiped them out, and for centuries to come their historians and writers wondered why they had done it.
The Lord also gave the Cananites a chance:
Thus saith thy brother Israel, Thou knowest all the travail that hath befallen us: how our fathers went down into Egypt, and we have dwelt in Egypt a long time; and the Egyptians vexed us, and our fathers: and when we cried unto the Lord, he heard our voice, and sent an angel, and hath brought us forth out of Egypt: and, behold, we are in Kadesh, a city in the uttermost of the border: Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's highway, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.
But the Cananites refused. "Thou shalt not pass!" was the reply.
Again, the peoples the Lord condemned, the Cananites and giants were degenerates. Have you ever read the scriptures and about Balaam?
Please post your examples of what you find so offensive.
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Viviane
The virgins and infants I view as being liberated from a horrifying future in profligate cultures. Of course the Israelites married them.
You are a sick person.
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cofty
It is beneath my dignity to converse with somebody who would justify infanticide and call it "Liberation".
Theism does terrible things to the human mind.
See Number 31; Joshua 8; 1 Samuel 15...
Scenario 1
You are camped on the east side of the Jordan waiting for orders to cross into the Promised Land. Moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to Joshua. He announces that he has had an instruction from God to take revenge on the Midianites before he dies.
The ensuing battle is a complete rout, not one Israelite soldier is killed in return for the complete annihilation of the Midianite army. You return to camp with a massive amount of spoil including tens of thousands of women and children. As you keep guard the commanders go off to report back to Moses. A while later they return with new instructions - Moses is furious about the prisoners of war and wants them separated into groups. The rest of the afternoon is spent separating the youngest girls from the rest of the captives. Its a horrifying task, the cries and of the mothers and the hysterical pleadings of the young girls is very distressing. When its over there are 32,000 girls who your commander says are to be shared out, 16,000 to the army and 16,000 to the rest of the families of Israel.
Cowering in front of you is a mass of terrified humanity, tens and tens of thousands of women and boys, some are only just too young to have fought with their fathers and brothers, others are just babes in arms clinging to their mothers, blissfully unaware of their fate. Now the order comes that you have been dreading. Moses’ command from Yahweh is that every one of them is to be put to death.
As your fellow soldiers unsheathe their swords and move towards the crowd there is a growing cacophony of screams. The women cover their children in a vain attempt to protect them from the massacre. Bodies are being dragged from the heap to uncover babies underneath so they too can be dispatched.
So what do you hope you would have the courage to do?
Faithfully carry out God’s command through Moses, or refuse to follow orders?
Scenario 2
Moses has died and the leadership has passed on to Joshua. The nation has crossed the Jordan and the city of Jericho was defeated miraculously. The next military target is the city of Ai. Yahweh has assured Joshua that the city will be easily defeated and the army have been given permission to take spoils of war.
Joshua has a plan and you are assigned to be part of a group of 30,000 of the best soldiers who are to sneak around the back of the city during the night and lie in wait. Joshua leads another section who moves out in front of the city gates towards Bethel. In the morning the men of Ai set out to repel Joshua’s frontal attack but the Israelite army flee with the Canaanite army in pursuit. With the city unguarded your section invades Ai and sets it on fire before marching out to help Joshua surround the men of Ai. The bluff works like a treat and victory is quick and decisive. You are excited now at the thought of getting straight back to Ai to discover what riches it may have to plunder.
Then comes that order again that you have been dreading. Before anybody gets to search out any valuables there is a job to do. The army is commanded to first go through the city carefully searching every house and execute every last woman and child. As you kick doors open you find women and children cowering together pleading for their lives.
So what do you hope you would have the courage to do?
Faithfully carry out God’s command through Joshua, or refuse to follow orders?
Scenario 3
The nation has been settled in the Promised Land for about 400 years. Your parents have often told you the old stories about the exploits of your ancestors who fought under Moses and Joshua and conquered the land. Israel has its first king now and you are proud to be a soldier in Saul’s army just like your forebears. Mostly your battles are defending the borders of Israel from hostile neighbours but then one day right out the blue you receive a strange instruction. You are ordered to muster at a town called Telaim, when you arrive you see that there are 200,000 foot soldiers as well as another 10,000 from the tribe of Judah. Something big must be happening.
Samuel addresses the troops and tells them he has had a word from Yahweh. Four centuries ago when your forefathers were leaving captivity in Egypt the Amalekites had attacked them in the desert at Rephidim. Joshua defeated them but not without a number of Israelite casualties. Now all these centuries and many generations later, Samuel says that God wants revenge on the descendants of those Amalekites.
Then comes the order you were dreading, “Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys”.
Cold Steel would be proud to murder the women and children and kidnap the virgins.
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transhuman68
Mormons don't mind a good massacre...