Perhaps this is more in line with being able to prevent situations like Menlo Park from happening. They CO can decide to renovate and if the body doesn't agree he can summarily replace them WITHOUT Headquarters getting involved and a seeming conflict of interest. Control is important but not as important as MONEY. As long as their is cash they will exist and with the new website their expenses can be greatly reduced. They can push more of the cost to the congregation without worrying if the body of elders will agree--disagreement will mean removal.
The REAL reason for the elder and ms appointment change......
by EndofMysteries 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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DATA-DOG
I think it's great news either way. IF it's a legal move to protect the Corporation and leave the Elders to twist in the wind..great. Just give it some time and watch. Be patient. The more crap the Elders endure, even the gung-ho loyalists, the less trouble they will want in their lives. Remember, the GB is constantly pressuring them to do MORE! Now they have to pious-sneer as well. There is ONLY so much they can take.
So, imagine the Eldubs, tired, weary, it's 2016 and the END isn't here. They are trying to pay their bills, do all their KH duties, Piou-sneer, ect. Then the CO is riding them about YOU. While they are chasing a carrot on the WTBTS treadmill, YOU have been planning your fade. So now they come after you, things get crazy, they start talking about JC's ...... That my friends, is when you strike. Tell the Eldubs that you will sue them as individuals for defamation of character if they attempt to DF you. Never meet with them unless they agree to allow your legal counsel to be present. Fight them on your terms, but ONLY if you must.
Who is going to help them, the CO?? The GB?!?!? Hell, NO. The Eldubs are expendable perimeter guards. When they realize that no one has their back, they will fold. A true martyr among the Eldubs will be a rarity.
THE OPPORTUNITY TO SECURE OURSELVES AGAINST DEFEAT LIES IN OUR OWN HANDS, BUT THE OPPORTUNITY OF DEFEATING THE ENEMY IS PROVIDED BY THE ENEMY HIMSELF.
Sun Tzu
DD
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Phizzy
Good post DD. We already see that many young men have the common sense not to become appointed, as soon as a few examples become known of Elders being held solely accountable, and it costing that Elder dearly, even more will refrain.
It will all help toward the eventual decline of the Borg. Good.
It really amuses me that "God's Spirit" directs the Borg in a way that whatever they do always comes back to bite them firmly in the arse, it is almost as though they simply do not think things through...........
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metatron
I spoke with someone who is hyperloyal, across many decades of trial and deep experience, before the announcement was made.
They were utterly horrified.
They'll all put a brave face on this - no different from the mass firing of long term Bethelites who went back to their rooms to cry bitterly - but make no mistake about it, this will be damaging.
metatron
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JeffT
Plausible deniability is a political, not legal, concept. As I said on the other thread, I've seen big corporations sued for actions by low level managers. "We didn't know about it" and "we didn't hire that individual" are not defenses that will fly in court. The courts take a position that a corporation is responsible for the actions of all their employees. In order to break that link (in my opinon) would be for the GB to give real autonomy to the local congregations, something I don't see them doing.
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DATA-DOG
Yes, brothers..We need to be ever more submissive to the "Dukes" and those taking the lead, even if it makes no sense and is horrifying from a human standpoint.
DD
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skeeter1
I thought about the change. Here's my take.
I think it's a move to protect Bethel and the Governing Body from criminal charges for pedophilia occuring within a congegation. Criminal law usually works on specific knowledge of a situation. Allowing it to happen, especially ongoing, would put those who knew either direclty criminally guilty (contributing to the delinquency of a minor) or indirectly criminally guilty (such as conspiracy, collusion, etc). I think the law is moving towards holding all who know of pedophile abuse to be criminally culpable. With this change, the CO could go to jail . . but not Bethel's volunteers or the Governing Body.
Why do I think Criminal Charges is why Bethel is worried? A few months ago, this happened
Quote from article, "The District 18 District Attorney’s Office in the State of Oklahoma filed a motion on Jan. 28, 2014 in the case of accused molester Ronald Lawrence that alleges the top leadership of the Jehovah’s Witness Church knew about claims of child rape and molestation and deliberately concealed them.
“The actions of the church, their banishment of Lawrence on one or more occasion and the directives of the governing body toward the victims and their family members regarding these crimes were actions of concealment and further actions preventing the victims from reporting the crimes to law enforcement,” the motion states."
I don't think the appointment change is as much of a move to remove financial culpibility completely. Tort law (suing for money) usually holds the principals/employer 'on the hook' for the errors of its employees & agents such as the case of an elder who abuses, or a CO who negligently hires/promotes/keeps a known pedophile in a position of authority. However, many states require the jury to apportion the monetary award between the parties responsible. In other words, I can see the WTS using this new elder appointment power to their advantage ( and the CO's disadvantage) to get out of the money aspects. For the Overseer, he better be wary. These judgements can last decades against him, and in most states, the CO stands to lose everything he owns and will earn for many years to come. This includes his own house. The CO might be able to obtain bankruptcy, but then the bankrtupcy judge will make the CO pay as much as he can from his assets and then for, most likely, 5 years afterwards.
Not a good time to be an Overseer.
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wallsofjericho
IMO, it would be short sighted or naive for WT to believe it can avoid culpability by assigning blame on the C/O.
legal dept has this all sorted out.
there will be all kinds of legalese and formality written into some CO procedural document that utilizes some arms-length loop-hole that disassociates legal liability from the WTS.
I believe the elimination of DO's is tied up with this new arrangment somehow also.
even the renaming of Districts into Regions could be part of the thing that creates a "new" something-or-other that gives the WTS a platform for creating this legal separation.
this has been written by lawyers and legal consultants over years of reviews and evaluations.
Absolutely this new arrangement will have AT THE VERY LEAST the benefit of sheilding the WTS assets from legal liability. With all this work, I am sure there are other benefits as well
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metatron
Let's think about this:
Who says all CO's have no property? The skinflint Society would like brothers with some financial resources or an independent income. In addition, a CO risks getting removed and stuck with a court judgement that could interfere with getting a job.
Who says stealing Kingdom Halls will work if congregations don't contribute? Suppose they steal a hall and sell it - but then get stuck with no/few elders because they fired honest elders and made them bitter or inactive?
There have been cases in which a CO who was an a$$hole fired an MS or elder only to find out that no one on the remaining body would do his job, such as Secretary or Accounts Servant. Trust me, the backroom haggling over this sort of avoidance can get hilarious as some elders treat this "opportunity" like a punishment!
Look guys, you don't make risky changes such as this if everything is OK and secure. If you run a far flung Organization, you don't roll the dice on its future unless you really have to.
At the core of it, that's the wonderful part: they MUST be desperate and sinking into deep trouble to do this. The cool thing is that the Organization is spread widely across the globe but painfully thin. As an professional engineer might say it has "no depth of defense". A small failure or reversal of fortune could create a landslide with little to stop the destruction.
it's gonna be fun to watch.
metatron
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DATA-DOG
I think all the legal reasons sound very plausible. That's why you should threaten individual Elders if necessary.
The GB want plausible deniability. The GB is the Divine Emperor, figurehead. The Legal Dept is the Shogun, that's where the real power is. They move their pawn on the battlefield as they wish, with no thought of the damage, until things go awry. Then it's time to execute some [ DO's] and "reward" others [ CO's] with the position. In reality the CO is just the next in line for execution [ seppuku if they are lucky ] but they don't know it. Meanwhile the lower orders are scrambling to please their superiors.
With the threat of displeasing the Emperor and the Shogun hanging over them, they worry about themselves and the very real danger of being banished as a Ronin. [DF'd] This is the ultimate shame. It's much better to die in service to the Shogun and the Divine Emperor. Still, being cowards, they will fight to live, even if it means turning on each other. That's why you threaten the individual Eldubs. Deep down, in the dark places where they fear to venture, they know they are on their own. One false step and it's " Sayonara." They would rather forget about you.