BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz 51 Replies latest jw experiences

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    What are the chances of a future BOE letter from the Governing Body of Jehovah Witnesses with the following:

    "After 130 years, it has finally been determined that there is no scriptural basis for disfellowshipping and shunning. Therefore, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has decided that the practice of disfellowshipping and shunning will be discontinued effective immediately.

    We want to extend our apologies for all the pain, abuse, humiliation and suicides that this practice has caused over the years."

  • joe134cd
    joe134cd

    I can't see anything coming of it. The Kings of spin will throw a host of legal excuses at it e.g 1st amendment. Freedom of religion. Statute of limitations. Trust me they will get out of it.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    I don't see this as a good thing at all. But this is Finland - I'm not sure what protections are awarded relgions. But even as an atheist, I worry about that precedent that it would set. And what are the "human rights" that are violated if a group doesn't want you as a member anymore?

    MMM

  • bohm
    bohm

    The way things typically go over here I would be nearly certain any decision by the finnish court system will eventually be overruled by the european courts or human rights councel and dropped.

  • NotNew
    NotNew

    I don't see this as a good thing at all. But this is Finland - I'm not sure what protections are awarded relgions. But even as an atheist, I worry about that precedent that it would set. And what are the "human rights" that are violated if a group doesn't want you as a member anymore?

    MMM


    • Many of these apply...can u find the ones that jehovah witness org violates?

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

    1. We are all free and equal. We are all born free. We all have our own thoughts and ideas. We should all be treated in the same way.

    2. Don’t discriminate. These rights belong to everybody, whatever our differences.

    3. The right to life. We all have the right to life, and to live in freedom and safety.

    4. No slavery – past and present. Nobody has any right to make us a slave. We cannot make anyone our slave.

    5. No Torture. Nobody has any right to hurt us or to torture us.

    6. We all have the same right to use the law. I am a person just like you!

    7. We are all protected by the law. The law is the same for everyone. It must treat us all fairly.

    8. Fair treatment by fair courts. We can all ask for the law to help us when we are not treated fairly.

    9. No unfair detainment. Nobody has the right to put us in prison without a good reason and keep us there, or to send us away from our country.

    10. The right to trial. If we are put on trial this should be in public. The people who try us should not let anyone tell them what to do.

    11. Innocent until proven guilty. Nobody should be blamed for doing something until it is proven. When people say we did a bad thing we have the right to show it is not true.

    12. The right to privacy. Nobody should try to harm our good name. Nobody has the right to come into our home, open our letters or bother us or our family without a good reason.

    13. Freedom to move. We all have the right to go where we want in our own country and to travel as we wish.

    14. The right to asylum. If we are frightened of being badly treated in our own country, we all have the right to run away to another country to be safe.

    15. The right to a nationality. We all have the right to belong to a country.

    16. Marriage and family. Every grown-up has the right to marry and have a family if they want to. Men and women have the same rights when they are married, and when they are separated.

    17. Your own things. Everyone has the right to own things or share them. Nobody should take our things from us without a good reason.

    18. Freedom of thought. We all have the right to believe in what we want to believe, to have a religion, or to change it if we want.

    19. Free to say what you want. We all have the right to make up our own minds, to think what we like, to say what we think, and to share our ideas with other people.

    20. Meet where you like. We all have the right to meet our friends and to work together in peace to defend our rights. Nobody can make us join a group if we don’t want to.

    21. The right to democracy. We all have the right to take part in the government of our country. Every grown-up should be allowed to choose their own leaders.

    22. The right to social security. We all have the right to affordable housing, medicine, education, and child care, enough money to live on and medical help if we are ill or old.

    23. Workers’ rights. Every grown-up has the right to do a job, to a fair wage for their work, and to join a trade union.

    24. The right to play. We all have the right to rest from work and to relax.

    25. A bed and some food. We all have the right to a good life. Mothers and children, people who are old, unemployed or disabled, and all people have the right to be cared for.

    26. The right to education. Education is a right. Primary school should be free. We should learn about the United Nations and how to get on with others. Our parents can choose what we learn.

    27. Culture and copyright. Copyright is a special law that protects one’s own artistic creations and writings; others cannot make copies without permission. We all have the right to our own way of life and to enjoy the good things that “art,” science and learning bring.

    28. A free and fair world. There must be proper order so we can all enjoy rights and freedoms in our own country and all over the world.

    29. Our responsibilities. We have a duty to other people, and we should protect their rights and freedoms.

    30. Nobody can take away these rights and freedoms from us.

    - See more at: http://www.samaritanmag.com/

    SW

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    The Universal Declaration of Human rights.. I see...This list, although containing some real rights, is peppered with entitlements, not rights.

    Which "right" from above is violated by shunning?

    Negative rights vs Positive rights. You have to be clear what a "right" is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOEkj6Jz44

    MMM

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    Groups have a lot of latitude in their behavior. However, once you enjoy the tax benefits of a non-profit organizations there needs to be established a value to the community. The antisocial behavior of jws is the opposite of what should be considered community benefit.

    So, they can do two things give up shunning and a few other antisocial behaviors (like letting their kids die) or give up their tax benefits.

  • Mikado
    Mikado

    Notnew, I can count six things...

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    The JW will argue, that somebody who joins them is educated about the practice of disfellowshipping and agreed to it

    However, how does this apply to children ? Or to certain sins, which are not mentioned neither in the bible , nor in the babtism questions?

  • cofty
    cofty

    what are the "human rights" that are violated if a group doesn't want you as a member anymore? - MMM

    It's not about removal from membership, it's about using threats of sanctions to enforce damage on family relationships.

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