rebel8 - I have suspected this for a while. My wife is very grateful for the fact that she knows I will insist on our son having a blood trasnfusion if necessary. Which makes it so ludicrous - these JW parents blocking up the courts with needless applications - and who pays the legal costs of giving the the JW parent a clean conscience? - the NHS, i.e. the tax payer. Another example of how the WBTS is a parasite on worldly tax payers.
"Only if you get a court order." wink, wink
by rebel8 43 Replies latest watchtower medical
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rebel8
om, the parents are encouraging the physicians to get a court order by making that statement.
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Open mind
Ahhh.... Got it.
Thanks rebel8.
I would imagine we're talking about situations where the child needs blood soon, but not necessarily immediately. My understanding is that, at least in most of the U.S., if a child needs an emergency transfusion due to being in an automible accident, they get it. Now. The squawking of their cult-member parents is just an annoying bit of background noise in the ER.
om
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jwfacts
The GB encourage it, as it is bad publicity for them when a child dies refusing blood. Toole, the Watchtower lawyer in Australia has admitted the law should be framed to allow the state to take children off the parents in life or death situation.
"Senator SCHACHT - I see. I just want to turn now to the well-documented case from your point of view about children and the complaint that we have laws in Australia in all states giving medical practitioners the right to overrule the parents .
Mr Toole - We are not saying in our recommendation that the law should not exist. What we have said is that there may well be circumstances arise where it does become an absolute life and death issue. We have said that in those circumstances that is the way the law should be framed. In its present form, the law is not framed that way and it allows an invasion of the family and an overruling of the principles of that family in circumstances that really do not call for that at all." (COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA, Official Committee Hansard, JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE, Reference: Australia's efforts to promote and protect freedom of religion and belief FRIDAY, 15 OCTOBER 1999 as shown at aph.gov.au as at 27th May 2006) -
Frazzled UBM
jwfacts - the title of the reference is instructive: "Australia's efforts to promote and protect freedom of religion and belief" - it shows the political impetus to protect organisations calling themselves religions no matter how damaging their practices are. I hope other Western governments will start to take a lead from the Finns to tackle abusive 'religions' like the Witnesses with references such as "Australia's efforts to protect citizens from the pschological damaging abusive practices of high-control organisations purporting to be religions."
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KateWild
I am relieved in the UK the courts make an order. My ex is still in and takes my 12yr old who doesn't believe in it. It's a stupid hypocritical policy, you can have fractions but not whole blood. As far as I am concerned blood fraction is blood, I mean where is it harvested from?
Kate xx
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Slidin Fast
There have been few if any cases in recent years in the UK of child deaths due to the blood issue. In the past children were wisked out of hospitals even where there was a court order to be treatedby some quack without blood. They lived or died, it didn't matter, god remembered them. The society in the UK have long ago given tacit permission for hospitals to give blood to children by the use of court orders. They just side-step the issue and shrug their shoulders. "Not our fault gov, it's them Satanic courts".
The blood police concentrate instead on adults, whenever there is a difficult health problem a trained elder waits in the wings offering "help" when required. How do they do it? Smiling sadly as people die, they should be dressed like the grim reaper.
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rebel8
I would imagine we're talking about situations where the child needs blood soon, but not necessarily immediately.
Yes. Surgeries, high risk births, etc.
My understanding is that, at least in most of the U.S., if a child needs an emergency transfusion due to being in an automible accident, they get it. Now. The squawking of their cult-member parents is just an annoying bit of background noise in the ER.
What now?! That's illegal, if the parents of a minor child are cognizant, present and expressed their decisions. In all the hospitals I've worked in/with, I've never heard of random ED staff overriding parental decisions in the manner you described. Shudder, I hope that's not really happening. Good lord. (I mean, good for the jw kids, bad for medical ethics.)
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Open mind
Uh, rebel8, I think we're probably talking right past each other here.
This quote from the link you posted confirms my earlier assertion:
"Generally, it is only when the child’s life is at risk that the weighing of interests favors the child and the government authority that is asserting the child’s rights."
Bottom line, if to a "reasonable degree of medical certainty" the kid's going to die without a blood transfusion, the whining JW parents can go pound sand while the ER docs give them blood to save their life. That's the reality in urban, Western, ERs that have access to judges willing to sign off 24/7 to save a kid's life.
If the kid's gonna die, the cult can suck it and the kid's gonna live.
Am I missing something here?
om
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talesin
Poz
There was a case here in the Maritimes. They kidnapped their daughter (she had a bleed after a tonsillectomy, was around 13/14 YO). The girl ended up okay, and I don't think there were criminal charges. I knew the family well, 'big wheels' down here.
Late 70s or early 80s.
Rebel8
I remember being taught that Jehovah knows our thoughts, and oh yes, just thinking of it, am reminded of this: the old "if a man looks at a woman with impure thoughts, he has already committed adultery in his heart" and Jah would know because he knows all your thoughts. Whether that was 'from the platform' or actually in the literature, I'm sure someone knows, here! :))
If that were so, I doubt it is recent teachings. As already mentioned, the WTBTS is wriggling out of the no blood stance ever-so-slowly, and may be soon a 'conscience matter'.tal