by booker-t 199 Replies latest watchtower bible
Here's a thought...
What if the "light got brighter," and the understanding of the trinity nature of God, has been revealed to true followers of Christ (Christians) today?
That is the reasoning that JW's (Jehovah-ians) use to explain all their made-up doctrines.
I realize that commenting here in favor of the Trinity is like stepping up voluntarily in front of a firing squad, but I will anyway. I struggled for about two years to understand the Trinity as the bible presents it. It didn't take long for me to realize that the concept I had growing up in church was not biblical. Hence the struggle. I have now come to an understanding that I am very comfortable with that fits very well scripturally. I put all of my notes into a six-session study and am happy to share it privately. Please PM me if interested.
The Trinity is a biblical concept, although it is very misunderstood by most proclaimed Trinitarians. It is even more misunderstood by JW's as they teach that the Trinity is the same as modalism. Let's face it, it is a difficult topic, and few churches spend any time at all delving into it. I personally believe that a person does not need to believe the Trinity in order to have salvation. I do believe that better understanding the concept of the Trinity helps with better understanding many other Christian concepts.
booker-t, are you sure you understand the doctrine of the trinity? The Father did not become so due to the human birth of Jesus.
"Trinitiarians insist the father is not the Holy Spirit and they are seperate persons in the Godhead."
Before you try to attack the doctrine best to try and get the facts right first.
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
The Spirit of the Father is the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of Jesus. One name, one Spirit.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
John 14 is a classic in this respect too.
Stephen
It is even more misunderstood by JW's as they teach that the Trinity is the same as modalism.
From my own experience most christians believe in one or other heresy that is not the trinity.
It's hardly surprising when the actual trinity is total mumbo-jumbo.
I challenge anybody to explan it in 3 short sentences, using words with their normal meanings, without contradicting themself.
God is the daddy..
Jesus is the daddy.
The holy spirit is the daddy.
PS Do they all share the same Mammy.
Cofty, your experience is accurate. As I said before, the average church does a pathetic job of educating their congregation on this doctrine. In order to understand it, one must divorce the idea that one being must equal one person and vice-versa. That is the human understanding that makes this doctrine seemingly impossible. So, I will try to help here. There is one being, Jehovah, that has the nature of God. That being is revealed in three distinct persons with three distinct roles. They are all God because they share the same nature just as we are all man because we share the same nature.
Knowing that all analogies fall short, try this one. Ask yourself if your words are still you. Sure, they represent you, but they can't possibly be anyone else. Obviously, you produce them, but was there ever a time that you did not have them while you have been alive. Try seeing Jesus as the God's word made manifest as a person. This is why he could only say what the Father willed him to say and do what the Father willed him to do. He is literally the word of God. This explains how no one could have ever seen the Father and yet so many people in the Old Testament are said to have seen Jehovah. Jehovah cannot be separated from His Word in the same way that Jesus cannot be separated from the Father. I see the Holy Spirit as Jehovah's actions, which is a bit more than simply an active force. Who sends the Holy Spirit? Both the Father and His word do. Does that at least help gain some insight on this topic?
booker-t,
Here is the trinty doctrine in simple terms:
The Father is God.
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father or Jesus.
ICA & Honesty - All of that also describes tritheism.
Honesty- but then you have the Church Fathers using "Homoousios" meaning same essence, very difficult to explain where and if there is a demarcation with such terminology since they are all three one "God".
