Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t 199 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cofty

  I said the Father glorfies the Son. I never said He worships Him specifically. - jonza

  You are prevaricating.

  The father is repeatedly referred to as "the god and father of Jesus".

  A god is an object of worship.

  You claim that Jesus is equal to the father. I asked how you can be equal to somebody you worship. You responded by suggesting that is may be reciprocal.

  When I asked you to clarify that you accuse me of twisting your words.

  So - Please be clear.

  1 - Does Jesus worship the father, his god?

  2 - Does the father worship Jesus?

  3 - Now please add the holy spirit into the equation. Who worships who?

  You used the illustration of components in order to explain the trinity, not to explain what it was not. Please keep it honest.

  The deification of Jesus was a gradual process that we can see within the gospels and NT letters. It clearly was a problem for a religion based in monotheism. The trinity was an attempt to square the circle.

  Your mistake is to pretend the bible is consistent on christology - it is far from it.
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  jonza

  I'll will continue to answer your question when you answer mine. You've still yet to answer a single one. I'll be waiting.

  "You are prevaricating." Speak for yourself..
• 

  cofty

  I will happily have blind faith - Iriddle80

  Contrary to popular belief, faith is not a virtue.

  Demand rational explanations and evidence for everything. That is how we escaped the cult.
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  cofty

  Jonza - That is a deeply dishonest attempt to avoid difficult questions. Good night.

  (My answers are in bold above)
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  jonza

  I fail to see how that is dishonest. I'm simply waiting on your answers before continuing to keep on answering your questions. I'm more than prepared to answer your questions. Yes they are difficult questions, and I don't pretend to have all the answers- only God does. I nevertheless don't see the point in answering your questions if you refuse to answer mine. All you are doing is making statements with no Biblical evidence to back them up. You are not addressing very specific questions I've asked you.

  "Your mistake is to pretend the bible is consistent on christology - it is far from it." Where do you get that from? Hebrews 13:8: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
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  lriddle80

  Jesus says in John 20:28, 29 - Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they that did not see and believed

  I have studied. To the point of getting sick and obsessed from so much study. Then the conclusion was made as to what I do actually believe. No one told me to believe this way, I found it for myself. And now, I settle on a few truths as my foundation. There are some subjects and theology that can be speculated endlessly and this is fun sometimes and new information is learned, but at a certain point, you go back to your foundation of truth.
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  Cold Steel

  The angel does not say the Father will overshadow her but the Holy Spirit will and if the Holy Spirit is a person that would make him the father of Jesus.

  I'm not a trinitarian, but I believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three individuals.

  So in what way is the Father the "father" of Jesus Christ (Yahweh)? To answer this, we have to determine what makes someone a father of someone else. In short, it's the seed. Today it's possible for a person to give birth to someone without ever meeting the father. But the technician who places the seed in a woman is hardly the father. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is not the father of Jesus.

  Anciently, when prophets like Moses saw God, they were first overshadowed by the Holy Spirit; otherwise, they would not be able to survive the experience. Not only did Moses speak to Yahweh "face to face," seventy of the elders of Israel, along with Moses, Aaron and Joshua, saw God and dined in his presence. The rest of Israel had the same opportunity, but they were afraid and told Moses that he should be God's intercessor.

  In some way no one understands, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary while the seed was transferred to her womb. But the seed was not that of the Holy Spirit, but that of the Father. Jesus existed as Jehovah in the Old Testament, during which he served as the intercessor between the Father and man. As the resurrected Jesus, he continues to be man's advocate with the Father. He is one in purpose with the Father, and thus when he prayed concerning the apostles, he said, "...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE." There was ONE quorum comprised of twelve members, just as there is ONE God comprised of multiple members. (We assume it's three, but we don't know everything about God.) If there are hundreds of billions of other universes besides ours, the oneness of God may comprise more, who knows? That has not been fully revealed.

  .
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  cofty

  Where do you get that from? Hebrews 13:8: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. - jonza

  Can't you see how this is circular reasoning?

  Please be clear.

  1 - Does Jesus worship the father, his god?

  2 - Does the father worship Jesus?

  3 - Now please add the holy spirit into the equation. Who worships who?
• 

  GoneAwol

  'Dissociative identity disorder is characterized by the presence of two or more distinct or split identities or personality states that continually have power over the person's behavior'. Thats what trinitarians have diagnosed "god" with..... Awwww. God is poorly in the head...
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  Sapphy

  I wish one of those venerated relics, nails of the true cross, turin shroud etc was real so that DNA analysis could be performed.

  I (don't) wonder if Jesus DNA would show him to be fully of human descent.

  I do wonder who his actual daddy was.