I had a similar problem trying to study the revelation climax book for preparation to study the bible book of revelations with a friend. All these prophesies being fulfilled by witness assemblies, it was embarrassing.
Feeling disloyal
by stirred but not shaken 34 Replies latest jw experiences
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Vidiot
stirred but not shaken - "There's been that uncomfortable feeling of being disloyal to God, the organization, many friends and relatives."
I can't speak for God (assuming he exists), or your friends and relatives, but does an organization that conducts itself the way the WTS has honestly deserve loyalty?
BTW, I like your user handle.
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Finkelstein
Welcome to the forum stirred but not shaken .
In your own personal investigation you've found that the WTS. hasn't been exactly truthful
concerning certain doctrines ie 607, what you should retain from this investigation is that the
WTS. hasn't been bringing forth factual information from thorough academic study on subject matters.
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This isn't something just newly evolved for as far back in the very beginning of this religious publishing house
there misleading false information.
Information perhaps that was attracting for people to read the WTS's literature but not backed
or supported by a broad base of intense theological study.
Marketing was the most pertinent agenda by the leaders of this organization and
more or less protecting this marketing by persons who got themselves involved in the organization as
yourself .
People who put themselves as devoted members took whatever the WTS said or printed as high standard
of Truth and honesty and were looked closed with scrutiny that you were faithful to the set and established
doctrines. So there you have it, basically its an organization where people are expected to uphold the WTS's
fraudulent doctrines which for all tense and purposes was this publishing house marketing strategy to
proliferate its own literature toward the public.
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The WTS. organization is an example of free religious expression in Americanized Charlatanism.
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LisaRose
This is the difference between a religion and a cult. If you were in another religion, the fact that after years of study, consideration and prayer, you chose to align yourself with a different flavor of Christianity, would probably not cause your family and close friends to avoid you. They might debate some of the points, they might wish you still belonged to their flavor, but they wouldn't start treating you as if you had two heads. This is the effect of cult mind control, they are afraid you will infect them somehow, that, against their will, they will lose their faith. It's laughable and contrary to the bible teachings that we should keep testing as to whether these things are so. If what they have is right, it should stand up to any challenge.
This fear of apostasy is so deeply ingrained in Jehovah's Witnesses that it takes years to wear off. It is what is driving your fear of being disloyal. If what the Watchtower teaches is a lie, and you know it is, you are not being disloyal to God to expose it, quite the contrary.
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berrygerry
PM (message) sent.
(Click on the maiI icon - top right of page)
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NewYork44M
Welcome and WOW! I look forward to your insights as time progresses.
Best
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DNCall
Welcome to the board. I too am looking forward to further posts from you.
I would also like to comment on your screen name. I cannot tell you how disillusioned I was with 007 when I realized that "shaken not stirred" was what he said rather than the reverse. Then when I read that he preferred vodka martinis, it was just too much.
You, on the other hand, obviously understand that shaking bruises the gin (i.e. leaves ice chips in the glass, thus watering down the gin--notice: gin, not vodka). "Stirred not shaken" is a far better directive than the other way around. Did I say welcome to the board?
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
SBNS: "There's been that uncomfortable feeling of being disloyal to God, the organization, many friends and relatives."
You have a conscience. WT and the GB has no conscience. They are completely disloyal to you. The lie to you. When time proves their prophecies to be false, the come up with a fresh layer of lies. Do they feel that they have been disloyal to God and to YOU by force feeding false prophecies to millions of followers? Nope! They sincerely believe that their lies were for your good, that they've done everyone a favor by their falsehood. They have been disloyal to you.
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leaving_quietly
Welcome, stirred. What you expressed is very similar to many here. Some here have gone through extreme turmoil which started them questioning things. I don't say "doubt", however, because many here don't doubt God or his Son, but do "question" the teachings of man. There is nothing wrong with questioning man's teachings, contrary to what the Society claims. In fact, there is nothing wrong with questioning God or his representatives, as we saw clearly yesterday in the Watchtower study where Gideon did just that. Questions lead to other questions. Sometimes they lead to answers, sometimes not. But sometimes, the journey is better than the destination.
I understand the feeling of disloyalty. It's easy to feel that way, especially since the Society has ingrained in us the requirement to be loyal. Often, they use the example of David and how he would not dare to take Saul's life because Saul was an anointed one by God. However, what we fail to recognize is that is where his loyalty stopped. He was not loyal to Saul's orders at that point because Saul was seeking to kill him. In other words, loyalty to man only goes so far.
Think of this: who does the Society say they represent? Jehovah. Who do they say they belong to? Jehovah.
Now ask: What arrangement did Jehovah really set up? Ephesians 1:22 says God made Christ head over all things with regard to the congregation.
What does this imply? That the Society's position takes Christ out of the way. It's no longer: Jehovah -> Jesus -> Congregation. Instead, it's Jehovah -> Congregation. When was the last time you heard "Christ's channel"? If the Society has taken the place of Christ, then wouldn't they really be overstepping their authority?
Consider this: in Egypt, Joseph was made second to Pharaoh. This was an illustration of the relationship between God and Christ. Even the Society makes this link. (w52 p. 733 par. 13) Notice what the scriptures say about their relationship.
Regarding the famine:
Gen 41:15: Eventually, all the land of Egypt suffered from the famine, and the people began to cry to Phar′aoh for bread. Then Phar′aoh said to all the Egyptians: “Go to Joseph, and do whatever he tells you.”
Do you think the Egyptians could do an end run around Joseph and go directly to Pharaoh? No. Notice what he further says:
Gen 41:39-41: Phar′aoh then said to Joseph: “Since God has caused you to know all of this, there is no one as discreet and wise as you. You will personally be over my house, and all my people will obey you implicitly. Only in my role as king will I be greater than you.” And Phar′aoh added to Joseph: “See, I am putting you over all the land of Egypt.”
Do you see the picture here? This is EXACTLY what Jehovah has done with Christ.
When Jesus was transfigured:
Matt 17:5: While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.”
And later, when Jesus was resurrected:
Matt 28:18: Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
Just like Pharaoh was greater in his role as king, Jehovah is greater in his role as King to his Son:
1 Cor 15:27-28: For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
What's my point? The Society constantly does an end run around God's duly appointed King, places themselves in his place and ignores his authority. True, they do give him lip service, but in reality, they treat Jesus as nothing more that a sacrifice. They do not honor him as they do God, which they really should do. John 5:22,23 says: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."One should ask, then, since God appointed Christ over all things, including the congregation, to whom should our loyalty go? To the organization? Or to Christ?
Another thing to think about: Read Galatians 2 very carefully. It is Paul's account of that famed meeting in Jerusalem from which the Society gets the idea of a governing body. Why did he go in the first place? Does it sound like Paul was going up to ask a question to get settled? Was he being disloyal with his actions?
Anyway, like I said, this is a very common feeling, and one that can take a long time to get past. Please pray and do your research. Don't leave God out of the process.
Best wishes to you.
~LQ